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Subject: Breaking Down the Battle of Hoth rss

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Mark D
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A pretty funny article, and hopefully this hasn't been posted yet.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/

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The single Rebel base (!) is defended by a few artillery pieces on its north slope, protecting its main power generator. An ion cannon is its main anti-aircraft/spacecraft defense. Its outermost perimeter defense is an energy shield that can deflect Imperial laser bombardment. But the shield has two huge flaws: It can’t stop an Imperial landing force from entering the atmosphere, and it can only open in a discrete place for a limited time so the Rebels’ Ion Cannon can protect an evacuation. In essence, the Rebels built a shield that can’t keep an invader out and complicates their own escape.
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Dominic Dinkel
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How funny! I just finished this article and came straight to BGG! Check out the comments under the article, that's where the real laughs are at
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Ben Delp
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Assault on Hoth: The Empire Strikes Back
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Chris Miller
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Articles like that are why the older I get, the more I realize Star Wars isn't as all-mighty as it used to appear.
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Ocean Druen
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Based on just the points in "ESB" the writer made several assumptions

1) He assumed that the TIE fighters could function in the harsh conditions on Hoth. The Rebels discussed the day before the invasion that they just adapted their speeders. My assumption would be that fighters would not work in the cold.
2) The writer assumes that the shield covered the entire planet, it did not - only the area of the bases thus why the AT-ATs need to land "beyond the energy field"
3) The shield was preventing direct bombardment, but knocking the shield down was not for this purpose; but to start direct landing of troops. General Veers tells Vader that he "may start his landing"
4) The writer also has harsh words that there was only a single base on Hoth - it was also clear that the base was also still under construction and that the assumption that there would not be additional support on the planet (when completed) seemed a little harsh
5) In the movies we see a single transport (the first) make it out safely - we do not know if the other transports made it.

I know it is all in good fun but the entire article seemed like he wrote it off the top of his head. It did wet my appetite for a more in depth analysis of the Empire's military strategy in the Galactic Civil War - from a good writer.
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Chris Miller
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DarkTori wrote:
Based on just the points in "ESB" the writer made several assumptions

1) He assumed that the TIE fighters could function in the harsh conditions on Hoth. The Rebels discussed the day before the invasion that they just adapted their speeders. My assumption would be that fighters would not work in the cold.


Certainly the surface of Hoth isn't colder than space?
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Ocean Druen
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MillertimeRC wrote:
DarkTori wrote:
Based on just the points in "ESB" the writer made several assumptions

1) He assumed that the TIE fighters could function in the harsh conditions on Hoth. The Rebels discussed the day before the invasion that they just adapted their speeders. My assumption would be that fighters would not work in the cold.


Certainly the surface of Hoth isn't colder than space?


I'm no physicist outside of the Star Wars Universe but the cold atmosphere would have unknown effects on the TIE Fighter's Twin Ion Engines.
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A boy named Sioux
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Well after watching the first movie which essentially had a moon-size station with a self-destruct exhaust port, I was willing to accept this.
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Damo
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MillertimeRC wrote:
DarkTori wrote:
Based on just the points in "ESB" the writer made several assumptions

1) He assumed that the TIE fighters could function in the harsh conditions on Hoth. The Rebels discussed the day before the invasion that they just adapted their speeders. My assumption would be that fighters would not work in the cold.


Certainly the surface of Hoth isn't colder than space?


Tie fighters don't seem to have great aerodynamic qualities....
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David
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Great link thanks. The comments after the article are indeed the funniest part. I never realised the battle of Hoth was such an imperial disaster. There are certainly lessons to be learned here and this analysis should be included in every staff officers course around the world, umm I mean around the galaxy.
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Dominic Dinkel
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Damjon wrote:
MillertimeRC wrote:
DarkTori wrote:
Based on just the points in "ESB" the writer made several assumptions

1) He assumed that the TIE fighters could function in the harsh conditions on Hoth. The Rebels discussed the day before the invasion that they just adapted their speeders. My assumption would be that fighters would not work in the cold.


Certainly the surface of Hoth isn't colder than space?


Tie fighters don't seem to have great aerodynamic qualities....


The TIE Fighter has no surfaces to produce lift and could not function in atmospheric conditions.
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Isaac Citrom
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Twenty to twenty-two I worked in a comic book shop. It catered to the familiar demographic. So, we had lots of Star Wars stuff, Star Trek, D&D, etc.

One day, a young gentleman taps me on the shoulder and poses this hyper-complex question about warp drives, pointing to facts from this book contradicing that book not jibing with this movie and incongruous with that episode.

Working in the store, certainly an expert and authority in/on all things Star Wars and Star Trek, naturally I would have the answer to his conundrum, "how can that be?!"

"It's fiction."
.
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Christopher Taylor
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RollingSherman wrote:
The TIE Fighter has no surfaces to produce lift and could not function in atmospheric conditions.

According to the source material, TIE Fighters can operate in atmosphere (they have a 1200 km/hr top speed), but...

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The front/rear cross-section of the fighter was designed to be small to make it difficult to hit with blasters, but these side panels proved easy targets for flanking enemy pilots.[21] They also hampered the fighter's ability to maneuver while in the atmosphere.

(Emphasis mine.)

If I recall, TIEs were seen flying around the Cloud City of Bespin in ESB.
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K G
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isaacc wrote:

Twenty to twenty-two I worked in a comic book shop. It catered to the familiar demographic. So, we had lots of Star Wars stuff, Star Trek, D&D, etc.

One day, a young gentleman taps me on the shoulder and poses this hyper-complex question about warp drives, pointing to facts from this book contradicing that book not jibing with this movie and incongruous with that episode.

Working in the store, certainly an expert and authority in/on all things Star Wars and Star Trek, naturally I would have the answer to his conundrum, "how can that be?!"

"It's fiction."
.


Isaac is a meany.
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Thomas Heaney
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Sounds to me like Ackerman hasn't played Star Wars: Empire at War. If he had, well, he wouldn't have written that article.
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Dominic Dinkel
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anarchy wrote:
RollingSherman wrote:
The TIE Fighter has no surfaces to produce lift and could not function in atmospheric conditions.

According to the source material, TIE Fighters can operate in atmosphere (they have a 1200 km/hr top speed), but...

Quote:
The front/rear cross-section of the fighter was designed to be small to make it difficult to hit with blasters, but these side panels proved easy targets for flanking enemy pilots.[21] They also hampered the fighter's ability to maneuver while in the atmosphere.

(Emphasis mine.)

If I recall, TIEs were seen flying around the Cloud City of Bespin in ESB.


You are right, they are seen in Cloud City. What I meant is that they shouldn't be able to operate given normal aircraft "rules," of course this fails to take into account that its Star Wars, lol.
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Adam D.
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I like the Xena answer on the Simpsons (paraphrase but close):

"Whenever you see something like that? A wizard did it."
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Since we are trashing Star Wars, does everyone know the Real Reason Episodes 1, 2 and 3 were made?

============================

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

Plinkett is not for the sensitive and certainly not for diehard Lucasions, but this is some damned funny sith...
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James Lowry
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RollingSherman wrote:
The TIE Fighter has no surfaces to produce lift and could not function in atmospheric conditions.

What does lift have to do with anything? If you can generate thrust in excess of your weight (yes, weight, not mass) you can do pretty much whatever you want to.

Lift is a crutch for vehicles that can't generate thrust in excess of their weight in local conditions. (Of course, guess which is much easier....)
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Bernd Caspers
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MillertimeRC wrote:


Articles like that are why the older I get, the more I realize Star Wars isn't as all-mighty as it used to appear.


That someone made the effort for a fictional battle of a film from 1980 speaks volumes about the power of Star Wars.
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Ocean Druen
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Back in 1995 when I was a TIE Fighter pilot (In the campaign to stop the attempted coup by Zaarin) we never flew in atmosphere, those are different units than us spaceheads with different training etc.

I do consider myself an expert as I was one of the first pilots of the TIE Defender...
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Doctor X

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Yeahhh, I was there too man. Ever get stuck stationed on Trandosha? What a drag!
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Dan Long
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The writer wonders why Darth Vader is involved in the ground attack/entry into the Rebel Base- I always assumed Vader was after Luke, in fact in my mind that's the whole motivation of the attack- to capture Luke rather than destroy all the Rebels.
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A boy named Sioux
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Hoth is okay. It's the Empire's weakness against logs and teddy bears on Endor that bothers me.
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Michael Carter
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http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/hoth-symposium/all/

Wired posted a rebuttal to the previous Battle of Hoth article.
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