Orion A
United States
Fort Collins
Colorado
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My first post on this awesome site, it might be long winded, I tend to do that. A group of friends and I just started a weekly game night and we played some Zendo, Settlers, and finished up with Betrayal (I have the first edition). It has been a few years since I've played so I was very rusty on rules. Play progressed normally and then the haunt started. Earlier in the game the now traitor had found the spear and crushed my other two exploring partners, who happened to be on the same level has him, with a couple lucky max rolls.


Spoilers for Haunt 14 First Ed below....




I had half of the paint cans I needed in the pentagram room and the other two were one room away and two rooms away. I was stunning cultist like crazy (I had already killed the traitor earlier) with my blood dagger and medical kit combo. Here's where the interesting ruling arises. The cultists, who can pick up items, were exploring (I didn't know they could sacrifice items to create their god until it was too late) so one of them had 2 random items 4 rooms away from the pentagram room, a second one had the adrenaline syringe 2 rooms away and in the smame room as me. The third was in the pentagram room having just sacrificed my dead friend.

I stunned the cultist with the syringe. I couldn't decide if I wanted to take it or leave it there. It was useless to me and there was a paint can in the room so I picked that up instead. On the monsters turn the traitor asked if he could move the non stunned cultist from the pentagram room, pick up the syringe and move back (that cultist had a six move that turn). I wasn't sure how monsters and items worked and I couldn't find a solid answer online or in the rules so I said we'll treat stunned monsters like dead explorers, they drop items and those can be picked up next turn or by who/what ever. So he does that move sacs the syringe, moves the other cultist, sacs his two items for a total of 13, winning him the game.

Had I picked up the syringe instead of the paint can he would have had to go all the way upstairs for his own traitorous body or found another item. What do you think about the ruling I made (even though it made me lose)? How do you all treat stunned monsters with items?

Thanks! Sorry it was so long.
 
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Michael Z
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While cultists may be able to pick up items, are you sure they are allowed to explore too?
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Welcome Orion to bbg!

I have the 2nd edition, and in my copy of the rules it says that in haunts where monsters are allowed to carry items they do drop them when they are stunned, so I think in this case the secrets of the traitor tome got you :/.

Also tho as mentioned by then other poster, I wasn't sure if you were saying your group was using the monsters to "explore" (walk around the already opened rooms of the house) or you meant "explore" explore (flip over new rooms), but if its the latter, monsters can't flip over new tiles exploring unless its something haunt specific (which in my copy #14 doesnt say they specifically can do that in the haunt so they have to follow the generic rules).

Hope that helps!
-E
 
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Orion A
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I read that online, but in one of the FAQs I read it said that you can steal items from monsters instead of stunning them which confused me. At least I made the correct ruling!

As for the exploring cultists that was another thing I was unsure of but it seemed fair to let them explore which is what we did. Would the rule book state when monsters are allowed to explore and when they aren't? I'll check my tome and see what it says for the traitor.

Thanks!!
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Odaon wrote:
I read that online, but in one of the FAQs I read it said that you can steal items from monsters instead of stunning them which confused me. At least I made the correct ruling!


Well I would say it would be just like how regular combat works. Again, not sure how it is in the original set but in regular combat its a Might Roll against Might Roll... in a case where you roll 2 more than the other, you can opt to not do damage and steal instead. So, in the case of Haunt 14 I would think since they are allowed to have items (when usually generic monsters cant) you could opt not to do damage (and not stun them) and instead steal items.

That's how I'd read it anyway.

Odaon wrote:

As for the exploring cultists that was another thing I was unsure of but it seemed fair to let them explore which is what we did. Would the rule book state when monsters are allowed to explore and when they aren't? I'll check my tome and see what it says for the traitor.

Thanks!!


Yeh with this Haunt I could see it being really hard for the Traitor team if the Traitor dies early (and thus couldnt get more items and couldnt open more roomes to look for items) or there werent many items out for the cultists to steal from the players. Technically speaking, I would just think it would be the bad luck of the Traitor side (as this game does have some very situational Haunts where when they come out is important), but I can also see you guys "House Ruling" that they could explore if it helped to even out the game more. Sounded like you guys had a super close game tho so it probably worked out for the best anyway =).

 
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Orion A
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roboraygun wrote:
Odaon wrote:
I read that online, but in one of the FAQs I read it said that you can steal items from monsters instead of stunning them which confused me. At least I made the correct ruling!


Well I would say it would be just like how regular combat works. Again, not sure how it is in the original set but in regular combat its a Might Roll against Might Roll... in a case where you roll 2 more than the other, you can opt to not do damage and steal instead. So, in the case of Haunt 14 I would think since they are allowed to have items (when usually generic monsters cant) you could opt not to do damage (and not stun them) and instead steal items.

That's how I'd read it anyway.


Yeah, this is what I assumed as well. However, why would someone ever choose not to stun a monster and steal its item when you can both stun and pick up the items it drops?


roboraygun wrote:
Odaon wrote:

As for the exploring cultists that was another thing I was unsure of but it seemed fair to let them explore which is what we did. Would the rule book state when monsters are allowed to explore and when they aren't? I'll check my tome and see what it says for the traitor.

Thanks!!



Yeh with this Haunt I could see it being really hard for the Traitor team if the Traitor dies early (and thus couldnt get more items and couldnt open more roomes to look for items) or there werent many items out for the cultists to steal from the players. Technically speaking, I would just think it would be the bad luck of the Traitor side (as this game does have some very situational Haunts where when they come out is important), but I can also see you guys "House Ruling" that they could explore if it helped to even out the game more. Sounded like you guys had a super close game tho so it probably worked out for the best anyway =).


The game was very close, and ultimately very fun, as usual! I think with haunts like that (although I was unaware that the cultists needed items to sacrifice!) it's probably more fair to let them explore because there's a good chance that I would have easily won that game with them not being able to. Who knows though!

A situation like that probably wont come up very often but if it does, will the haunt say if monsters are allowed to explore?
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Odaon wrote:
roboraygun wrote:
Odaon wrote:
I read that online, but in one of the FAQs I read it said that you can steal items from monsters instead of stunning them which confused me. At least I made the correct ruling!


Well I would say it would be just like how regular combat works. Again, not sure how it is in the original set but in regular combat its a Might Roll against Might Roll... in a case where you roll 2 more than the other, you can opt to not do damage and steal instead. So, in the case of Haunt 14 I would think since they are allowed to have items (when usually generic monsters cant) you could opt not to do damage (and not stun them) and instead steal items.

That's how I'd read it anyway.


Yeah, this is what I assumed as well. However, why would someone ever choose not to stun a monster and steal its item when you can both stun and pick up the items it drops?





Good point! Yeh I guess in this case you're right, in thise case its the same so just stun them and pick them up I guess =P.

Guess it would really only matter if there was a haunt where dropping items makes something special happen... that or I guess some elaborate scheme using the "Dog" card?


Odaon wrote:
roboraygun wrote:
Odaon wrote:

As for the exploring cultists that was another thing I was unsure of but it seemed fair to let them explore which is what we did. Would the rule book state when monsters are allowed to explore and when they aren't? I'll check my tome and see what it says for the traitor.

Thanks!!



Yeh with this Haunt I could see it being really hard for the Traitor team if the Traitor dies early (and thus couldnt get more items and couldnt open more roomes to look for items) or there werent many items out for the cultists to steal from the players. Technically speaking, I would just think it would be the bad luck of the Traitor side (as this game does have some very situational Haunts where when they come out is important), but I can also see you guys "House Ruling" that they could explore if it helped to even out the game more. Sounded like you guys had a super close game tho so it probably worked out for the best anyway =).


The game was very close, and ultimately very fun, as usual! I think with haunts like that (although I was unaware that the cultists needed items to sacrifice!) it's probably more fair to let them explore because there's a good chance that I would have easily won that game with them not being able to. Who knows though!

A situation like that probably wont come up very often but if it does, will the haunt say if monsters are allowed to explore?


TBH I have yet run into a Haunt that's had monsters that could explore so actually unsure. I was just going off of the Monster section that in general said that Haunts could override those rules. It sounds like it was a good call to let them look for items tho for that particular game =).

 
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