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Subject: Several rules questions and stuff rss

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Marc Voyer
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Love this game, some of the rules in the AH version are confusing/strange though!

1) Melee retreat. When does disorder happen? After the retreat or before? If it is before, that means an effective ordered unit turning ineffective due to a damage/retreat result could be captured...

2) Retreat in general.. Does a unit face the way it's retreating after it's 2 square retreat?

3) Command. I know the OSG version command points were issued to individual units, which was changed in the AH version.. It seems bizarre to me that in the AH version you spend the same command points to issue a rally order which can rally anywhere from 1 to 5 units at the same time for the same cost...

4) Off map CSA artillery. Overpowered? Ive played 4 or 5 games and I can generally take out at least half of the union houck's ridge artillery before it can escape or the CSA units are too close to fire at them anymore.

5) Why does a disordered unit have zoc/facing if when you rally it, you choose the facing?

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Pone McPoneface
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thethrax wrote:
Love this game, some of the rules in the AH version are confusing/strange though!

1) Melee retreat. When does disorder happen? After the retreat or before? If it is before, that means an effective ordered unit turning ineffective due to a damage/retreat result could be captured...

2) Retreat in general.. Does a unit face the way it's retreating after it's 2 square retreat?

3) Command. I know the OSG version command points were issued to individual units, which was changed in the AH version.. It seems bizarre to me that in the AH version you spend the same command points to issue a rally order which can rally anywhere from 1 to 5 units at the same time for the same cost...

4) Off map CSA artillery. Overpowered? Ive played 4 or 5 games and I can generally take out at least half of the union houck's ridge artillery before it can escape or the CSA units are too close to fire at them anymore.

5) Why does a disordered unit have zoc/facing if when you rally it, you choose the facing?



Please keep in mind that my answers are only my interpretation of the rules based on many hours of debating and negotiating with my best friends since around 1984. The answers are what we agreed would be the best implementation of the rules, so you could consider some of my answers as a form of house rules in the case you do not entirely agree with them.

1) Melee retreat - units retreat first and then become disordered. In essence the retreat creates the disorder as fellow soldiers see their comrades begin to run away, and then one by one join in.

2) Retreat in general - retreating units immediately face away [turn around essentially] from firing/attacking unit and retreat as directly away from attack and end facing the direction of the retreat. Yes, with their back to the enemy...they are running away you know.

3) Individual disordered units are rallied with CP points per unit disordered. All other orders are for the entire command radius. We came to this conclusion due to rule 5.4 Issuing Orders-Second, decide which, if any, of the regiment's disordered units to rally. Also, 30.14 Rally by Brigade Officer, whereby a brigade officer can use his CP points to rally individual disordered units within command range. Command points will become quite precious if you have disordered units in enemy zones of control, ineffective units, and then try to give movement, fire, and ammunition collecting orders. This is made worse if any of your officers get wounded or killed as replacements are not nearly as effective with command. CPs do add up, but good officers manage well which we believe was historically accurate for those officers present at that battle.

4) This one surprised me a little as none of the people who played this game, including myself, felt that CSA off map artillery was very effective and very useful. You can not fire on any enemy unit within 10 hexes of friendly units which meant firing on Houck's Ridge was limited. Napoleons can't fire above the 560' mark on the Little Round Top and you only score a direct hit on units on a 6,7 and even then a Parrot/Rifle will only get you a disorder and only if you have 2 guns firing. A Napoleon is more effective but the only really useful ones are the Warfield Ridge batteries and these can essentially only fire on the Slaughter Pen and Valley of Death. Though targets may be available in and around the Weikert Field and west of Houck's Ridge once Robertson's Brigade moves onto the field on turn 2 the 10 hex restriction will rapidly come into effect.

5) A disordered unit may be out of command range for example. In which case it can still fire on an enemy unit, though with a number of penalties (SP reduction, column shift). A retreated unit that is disordered is facing away from the enemy and suffers a penalty if fire on again. An officer that can rally these units is essentially making them turn around and fall into line.

I hope this is helping answer your questions and that I have interpreted your questions correctly. Please feel free to ask for any elaboration or questions you may have regarding my answers.

Edit: I was initially wrong in my answer to question 3. I have since corrected it to reflect the change and removed my incorrect response. blush
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Marc Voyer
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Thanks for the quick response

1, 2, thats how we've been playing as well. 3 is true, and I understand why AH changed it from the OSD rules, I couldn't imagine having to figure out command point values for every single unit.

4, Maybe we've been getting lucky and rolling 6, 7, etc during those first few rounds. I tend to not move in too close with CSA so that off-map artillery have a chance to bash the union's 4 guns if union stays within visibility west of the crestline, north of devil's den.

Another rule I question is how melee works.. What if you have 2 units from 2 different hexes that can melee (or perhaps charge) the same unit since they are both facing it, do both move in at the same time (which can likely violate stacking limits), and what if both are charging? The rules say something about forcibly having to enter the hex. We've been playing that each stack goes 1 and a time and its a seperate melee resolution for each one, and if one wins and the other was charging, they just stay in their hex.
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Pone McPoneface
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You are most welcome!

I was just discussing this with my best friend and I have it a bit wrong concerning rallying units. Individual disordered units are rallied with CP points per unit disordered. All other orders are for the entire command radius. We came to this conclusion due to rule 5.4 Issuing Orders-Second, decide which, if any, of the regiment's disordered units to rally. Also, 30.14 Rally by Brigade Officer, whereby a brigade officer can use his CP points to rally disordered units within command range.

Sorry about that, though we have played it the other way, due to the same confusion concerning CP points.

Concerning off-map artillery, my best friend did remind me of games where he totally made me regret making fun of CSA artillery fire and I alleviated the issue by removing my Union cannons and units behind the crest on Houck's Ridge. As a Confederate player I always close with the Union as quickly as possible, so I tend to end my artilleries role quickly.

As for melee, the rules are pretty clear about this in my mind. Only 1 stack may attack a hex at a time. This does not mean you can not commit multiple hexes to attack a hex, but each one must be dealt with one at a time and if the first one succeeds the other attacks do not occur, hence the rule about melee being voluntary.
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Marc Voyer
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Ouch that's expensive, per unit!.. Melee/other actions would be a rare sight that way. If the cp cost was a bit lower it wouldn't be so bad. Again a bit of an overlook I think when AH altered it. 30.14 is for direct orders though, which makes sense. 8 cp for 1 unit yet some replacement officers get a max of 7.. hmmmmm.. its almost better to force a unit out of command range so you get more cps!
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Pone McPoneface
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thethrax wrote:
Ouch that's expensive, per unit!.. Melee/other actions would be a rare sight that way. If the cp cost was a bit lower it wouldn't be so bad. Again a bit of an overlook I think when AH altered it. 30.14 is for direct orders though, which makes sense.


Though it will make for some interesting command decisions and dampen some more aggressive actions due to the need to maintain regimental cohesion. I remember some situations where I used all my command points just to rally units and have them face the enemy again. At first we doubted if this was realistic until we started researching more battlefield accounts and realized the merits of keeping units bunched together in line formation and the difficulties commanders had to rally men back to the flag and reform them for another attack in the face of continued fire. Each turn is only 8 minutes long so overall we came to the conclusion that it was pretty realistic for a board game. Sometimes a decision would be made to not rally ineffective disordered units just to have enough command points to launch a volley back at the enemy. In many cases these disordered units would get out of command range as the front moved forward and essentially be a group of demoralized soldiers straggling off the field not sure where there unit was in all the powder smoke that would be masking the front line area.

Good stuff!
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Marc Voyer
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Haha yeah same here, by around turn 14-15 there's ineffective disordered units all over the place, shamefully ignored...
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Mike W
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Marc, thanks for the questions and your review. Joe, thanks for answers and discussion. I am in the middle of my first game ever, a solo play of the Assault on Devil's Den scenario with the Basic rules.

Pone4games wrote:
Individual disordered units are rallied with CP points per unit disordered.

At first I was playing rally as a single cost per regiment, plus 1 CP per ineffective unit rallied. After re-re-reading a few of the rules passages, I now agree that the cost is per unit. One clarification, per 15.23 it is more accurate to say rally is per disordered stack, with the total cost determined by the most expensive unit in the stack to rally.
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