GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
10,268 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
14 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Dominion» Forums » Variants

Subject: More Card Ideas: Feedback Anyone? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jake Sil
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools













1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
No offense man but most of these cards are pretty poorly designed, worded and aren't very good.

I don't have time to go over them now but most of them don't demonstrate a very good understanding of the game.

For the time being my advice is to read this thread and consider its advice. It has some great advice on making custom cards as well as common pitfalls to avoid.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=699.0
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Sil
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
The thread has been considered. I'll await some more detailed feedback.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Nathan
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
allstar64 wrote:
No offense man but most of these cards are pretty poorly designed, worded and aren't very good.

I don't have time to go over them now but most of them don't demonstrate a very good understanding of the game.


What he said.

But, to illustrate, here goes on the first card:

Upon first reading, I would buy Alms and Grants one on my first two turns. I would play it as soon as possible and give my opponent(s) all of the estates. (For illustrative purposes, and because it's how I usually play, I'll use a two-player game example).

So I give you eight estates.

What do you do with a deck that is now, save you having a Watchtower or something, likely 7 coppers + 11 estates + turn 1 buy + turn 2 buy? That seems hard to recover from.

But what do I do with my turn? "Gain that amount of treasure" - what amount? I passed out 8 cards do you mean "8" treasure? They were worth 8 victory points, do you mean "8" treasure? They would have cost 16 treasure, do you mean "16" treasure?

OK, no idea, but I continue "Gain that amount of treasure, in whatever form" - huh? Do I spend the "amount of treasure" on new treasure? Is it just to spend this turn or do I gain Treasure cards? Am I spending that amount or do I get 8/8/16 treasure cards?

Ok, no idea, but I continue "Gain that amount of treasure, in whatever form, equal to the amount of victory points you distribute." - Ah, ok, the amount of victory points, and I'm putting it in my hand, so I suppose you mean cards and not virtual currency to spend this turn. (Still not sure if we're talking number of cards, value to purchase or value when spent)

What in the world am I going to do with the eight Gold cards I now have in my hand? (In general, +buy is undervalued in your cards.)

This card, in a 2-player game, would seem to be a race to the first person to be able to play it. Winner is determined somewhere between turn 3 and 5.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Sil
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
How do you give 8 estates in one turn?

But I'll continue, if you DO give 8 estates over in that turn. You gain 8 treasure, in whatever form, because you gave 8 points worth of victory. That being 2 gold and 1 silver, or 4 silver, or 8 coppers, etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
allstar64 wrote:
No offense man but most of these cards are pretty poorly designed, worded and aren't very good.

I don't have time to go over them now but most of them don't demonstrate a very good understanding of the game.


Some of them are worthwhile and they certainly show a great deal of enthusiasm and interest in the game, something that by no means should be discouraged.

Child Ruler is one I might buy and it's great name for what it does.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Nathan
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
cheshire12134 wrote:
How do you give 8 estates in one turn?


Because you made the card text say:

"If you wish, you may distribute any amount of estates, duchys, and/or provinces to any other players of your choice."

Edited to add: What they said below me. The card doesn't say where the cards come from, so I wish to give you all estates in the supply.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarno Suntio
Finland
Turku
flag msg tools
42
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cheshire12134 wrote:
How do you give 8 estates in one turn?

But I'll continue, if you DO give 8 estates over in that turn. You gain 8 treasure, in whatever form, because you gave 8 points worth of victory. That being 2 gold and 1 silver, or 4 silver, or 8 coppers, etc.


The card doesn't say "from your hand" so it could be reasoned that you can give the whole estate deck away. These cards are all very nice and have amazing art but the wording on them is just terrible.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
cheshire12134 wrote:
How do you give 8 estates in one turn?

But I'll continue, if you DO give 8 estates over in that turn. You gain 8 treasure, in whatever form, because you gave 8 points worth of victory. That being 2 gold and 1 silver, or 4 silver, or 8 coppers, etc.


I think that illustrates the poor wording on the card. It doesn't state where the cards are given from. "You may give any victory cards in your hand to other players..."

I would actually label this an attack and you don't get the coin for it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Sil
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
Alrighty. Thanks! Change alms to say "in your hand". What other wording is terrible aside from this card?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
allstar64 wrote:
No offense man but most of these cards are pretty poorly designed, worded and aren't very good.

I don't have time to go over them now but most of them don't demonstrate a very good understanding of the game.


Before making a snap judgement you should look them over. Despite wording problems some of them are pretty clever mechanics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarno Suntio
Finland
Turku
flag msg tools
42
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also I think Cursed Treasure would be the first Dominion card that affects your turn without you playing it to the table which just contradicts the very logic of Dominion.

Maybe make it a combined Curse/Action and have it say something like
"When you play this you may trash it. If you do -1 (or maybe -2) coin."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarno Suntio
Finland
Turku
flag msg tools
42
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CrankyPants wrote:
allstar64 wrote:
No offense man but most of these cards are pretty poorly designed, worded and aren't very good.

I don't have time to go over them now but most of them don't demonstrate a very good understanding of the game.


Before making a snap judgement you should look them over. Despite wording problems some of them are pretty clever mechanics.


He did look them over... just didn't have the time to write (or "go over" as one might say) what he thought was wrong with them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Green
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The whole set seems to be very anti-defense themed. What do you have against Moats and Lighthouses?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Sil
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
KernTheGerm wrote:
The whole set seems to be very anti-defense themed. What do you have against Moats and Lighthouses?




Just that they are unbreachable for a whole round. The two cards merely suspend them for one attack.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Rudd
England
Bideford
Devon
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
You know why Tactician has an "if you discarded any cards this way" clause? Well, you will once someone King's Courts an Encyclopedia.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Young
United States
Sterling
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So a lot of these cards are very poorly worded. If I have to ask, "what happen when," then the card needs to be made clearer. I'll give an example FOR EVERY CARD YOU HAVE LISTED.

Alms and Grants: This has already been discussed. Where do the Estates come from? Did you mean from your hand? If so, you need to say it on the card.

Blessing: If I have three Blessings next to the Estates pile, do Estates now cost negative one coins? What does that even mean? Are these Blessings still in play for me? Do they count toward Peddlers? If so, why aren't they Durations?

Bribe: When you say 3rd turn, do you count the turn it was played? So is it +$2; +Action +&2; +$4 or $2; +Action +2; no effect; +$4

Child Ruler: Congratulations! This one doesn't have any "what if's"

Confessional: What is my kingdom deck? Do you mean my deck? What if I don't have a curse card there? It says to keep looking until I find one. Dominion cards are played as read, so I'd have to keep looking for the rest of time if I play according to what you wrote instead of what you meant. Yeah, I know what you meant, but -- and trust me on this -- hardcore Dominion players are some of the biggest sticklers for literalism and search for edge cases everywhere. Also, you don't specify which Confessional card, so I'm going to trash the one my opponent just bought.

Crusade: You don't specify where we give those Silver from, so I'm going to give you one from Supply. As as bonus, you say "at least" a Silver card, so I'm also going to give you all the Curses in supply as well. Also, the author of this card can say "you" instead of "the active player."

Cursed Treasure: You need to add a line to this card and below that line you need to write, "in a game including Cursed Treasures, players must reveal their hands at the start of their Buy phase." This will slow down the game a lot, but it will keep me from not revealing my Cursed Treasures and then later claiming that you just didn't find them in my hand. Also, how are these included in the game? Replace Curses? Shuffled into Curses? A Kingdom pile?

Encyclopedia: Since you didn't specify action cards I played this turn, would I need to discard the Action cards I played on previous turns and might now be in my deck or the Trash? Also, while I wouldn't immediately draw a new hand, I would still draw one during my cleanup phase after I had my buy phase, since you don't tell me not to do that. Finally, I don't have a Kingdom pile. I have a deck and a discard pile (and maybe some cards on mats somewhere).

Fog of War: Does this card stay out? If not, what if the next attack is played three turns from now. I'm assuming that Fog of War suspends lighthouse for itself as well, otherwise since its an attack Lighthouse would block Fog of War itself. Also also, if I have a Moat, could I reveal it for Fog of War, thus allowing my Lighthouse to block the next attack? If so, how do I track that if the next attack is played by someone else?

Secret Passage: Take everything I said about Fog of War and swap Moat and Lighthouse.

Wolf: What is an "end duration effect?" So if you play Wolf and I reveal a Moat to defend against it (since Moat must be revealed when the attack is played, not when it actually harms you), is there any way to track that so when your next turn comes around we can remember that I revealed a Moat to your Wolf?

Tithes and Offerings: When you say total the treasure cards, do you mean the quantity of treasure cards or the total sum of the value of those treasure cards. This will be remarkably slow with multiple Philosophers Stones in the game. Also, how much is Bank worth while it is in your hand?

Cursed Pirate: But I can still reveal the Moat in response to the attack if I want even though it won't prevent the attack. (There are also timing issues here, but I'll let the picker than me people explain those). Oooh, when do I get the -$1 on my next turn? Can I take it during my clean up phase?

Scorched Earth: There is no such thing as "the Victory Pile." Given that this is a Curse, can I distribute it to other players with my Witch?

OK, so look, you have some interesting ideas, and I suspect that they are very clear to you in your mind. You are just expressing it poorly. Dominion has a very exacting language that you need to learn and use.

You're going to get a lot of negative feedback on your cards, not just from me, and some of it will be a lot harsher than what I have posted. If you want to keep going, cool. But you really need to work on your phraseology. Good luck!
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
enfynet enfynet
msg tools
mb
You should also post a text version of the card, and not just the images. It's considerably easier to comment on things when you can quote the original.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David H
Canada
flag msg tools
You can't fall when you've hit the bottom
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree, the wording on the cards is an issue, but some of the ideas are very interesting.

I happen to like scorched earth in particular, where if I am going dutchies I can bury the province pile under a load of crap.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Fox
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Where did you get the art for these? It's very nice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Sil
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
Thanks all for your comments. I appreciate any more feedback and edits for these! Most everyone had constructive (some slightly condescending) remarks. As a newcomer to the forums it's a bit of a letdown, but everyone's remarks help make these cards better. There's certainly a lot more to be done.

Thanks all!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
My original comment came off much harsher than I meant it to be. The cards had wording problems there's no denying that and because of the wording problems I couldn't be sure what you actually meant hence as they were most were as I said: "poorly designed, worded and aren't very good." though I should have added that they could be good with fixed wording. Alms sorta set up my impression of the cards as a whole since as people said since you didn't specify where the cards came from 1 play of alms meant the entire estate deck was with your opponent or the game could end instantly if you were feeling generous. I didn't mean to say there weren't some ideas that might work but as they were they had problems. Anyway lets see if I can add some detail.

Alms and Grants: The main problem with this has been discussed but there is an even bigger problem with it which hasn't been mentioned. You said

Quote:
But I'll continue, if you DO give 8 estates over in that turn. You gain 8 treasure, in whatever form, because you gave 8 points worth of victory. That being 2 gold and 1 silver, or 4 silver, or 8 coppers, etc.

If this is what you intended the card is broken. There are treasures in this game that give 0 coins but are very powerful treasures. Horn of plenty from Cornucopia is one and an argument can be made for Bank from Prosperity as well (when you play Bank it is worth treasure based on the number of treasures you have in play). Hence a single play of Alms and Grants would instantly allow you to gain every treasure from these piles.

Blessing: Since the card costs 1 less it also costs 1 less for all opponents. As such it is a pretty pointless card as it doesn't particularly have a net benefit for you and as such isn't a very good buy.

Bribe is just an extension of Merchant Ship and Fishing village. It might be underpriced but I'm not sure. There's nothing particularly wrong with a duration that lasts an extra turn other than there is no card that currently does that so it's price is hard to evaluate.

Child ruler is pretty badly overpriced. When you play it you end up with only 3 cards left in your hand so unless they are all actions or let you draw more cards your actions will be wasted. Having a lot of actions doesn't merit making the card overly expensive. A card that was +3 actions +1 card would just barely be a cost 4 card. Being forced to both discard and trash a card doesn't make it stronger. (Just trashing is fine but the forced discarding kills it). Some players overvalue cards that just give actions. Generally just giving a lot of extra actions doesn't make a card spectacularly good.

Confessional: See Buggy's comment. Also The main issue with cards like this is they are only useful if there are curse givers and if there aren't it's just a weak village whose only purpose is the +2 actions. Basically all it accomplishes is stops people from bothering with cards that give curses if they are present or acts like a card that just gives +2 actions which is only good if it is the only card in the set which gives +2 actions.

Crusade: Buggy nailed this one

Cursed Treasure: Buggy again nailed it (you are not obligated to show cards in your hand you don't want to show so there is no way to hold people accountable for the card)

Encyclopedia: I don't see anything obviously wrong other than tightening the wording on this card. Seems like it can definitely work though with the right price.

Fog of War and Secret Passage: Buggy hit the problem with these cards. They actually should not be attacks since when you play them if they are attacks an opponent with a moat or lighthouse would be immune to them anyway (I'll talk about this more in ghost pirate). Also did you intend for them to be till the end of the current turn or to stay out till an attack is played? Also falls under category 10 of the page linked in my previous post.

Wolf: This card is just not a card good. Trashing low cost cards of your opponent helps your opponent not you so basically this card helps your opponent's more than it helps you. Not a card I'm going to want to buy.

Tith and Offerings: See Buggy. Also scales badly in games with many people. In a 6 player game it is almost always going to be in the upwards of +5/6 money.

Ghost Pirate: Okay the main issue here is this. Lets say you play a Ghost Pirate and I reveal a Moat. Now we have an unstoppable force vs an unmovable object.
"The moat makes me immune to the attack" I say
"But the Ghost Pirate makes the Moat not work" you reply
"But since making the moat not work is part of the attack I'm immune to that too" I say back.
"But the Ghost Pirate again makes the Moat not work" you repeat.

So what gives are we at an impasse? Actually no the defender wins and Moat takes precedence and stops the curse. Here's why.

The moat is revealed in response to an attack being played, not the text of the attack. Therefore moat's immunity to attacks kicks in before Ghost Pirate's ability to shut down moats kicks in and since Ghost Pirate's ability to shut down moats is part of its attack the moat player is immune to that part as well.

One workaround would be to rules lawyer it into the game or make it so Ghost Pirate is not an attack card so the moat cannot be revealed in response to it being played but this messes with the normal mechanics of the game.

Scorched Earth: Interesting concept which could work though might slow the game down pretty badly. Weird wording.

cheshire12134 wrote:
Thanks all for your comments. I appreciate any more feedback and edits for these! Most everyone had constructive (some slightly condescending) remarks. As a newcomer to the forums it's a bit of a letdown, but everyone's remarks help make these cards better. There's certainly a lot more to be done.

Thanks all!


I'm not sure why you find our remarks a letdown since we were only doing what you asked and spending time to give feedback. Mine might have come a little late but I was always intending to give it when I had the time. Good luck on fixing it and feel free to ask for help doing so.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maarten Robinson
England
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
cheshire12134 wrote:
Thanks all for your comments. I appreciate any more feedback and edits for these! Most everyone had constructive (some slightly condescending) remarks. As a newcomer to the forums it's a bit of a letdown, but everyone's remarks help make these cards better. There's certainly a lot more to be done.

Thanks all!

I think you've done "exceedingly good" as Mr Kipling might say.
Yes ... There are areas for potential adjustment but the graphics And the preparation thAt's gone into it ... I wouldn't even know where to start. I love the theologically linked theme. It's not the first but let's see more of them.
Thanks for this. Keep dominionising and enjoy the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Brendel
United States
Dunwoody
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are no cards that refer to a specific other Kingdom card by name, because that won't do anything in any of the squijillions of kingdoms that don't include both cards. Cards can refer to themselves (as Transmute and Treasure Map do), the basic supply cards (C/S/G, E/D/P, Curses), or cards that are required by the rules to be present (as Alchemist requires Potion).

Secret Passage is completely pointless in games that don't include Moat and another attack card. Moat isn't even a great card -- there are plenty of times I don't buy it because I think I can shrug off the attacks. But at least a terminal +2 Cards can very occasionally be put to good use, even on an attackless board. You're trying to kneecap a weak card, and you're doing it weakly.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Petr Sworrenn
msg tools
I'm no pro but scorched earths looks awesome.

A bit like embargo from seaside.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.