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Subject: 2013 Solitaire Print and Play Contest Discussion and Feedback Thread rss

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Chris Hansen
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pusherman42 wrote:
It's not like we can play the games before the first day of the "play period" so having a bunch of unfinished games floating around doesn't hurt anyone. I'd just make sure you don't tell Chris to enter your game when it's just a fart in the wind. Wait until it's (let's not stick with this metaphor) to be entered into the contest thread.
There were lots of games that were entered as Brainstorming ideas that never got beyond that point. On the other hand, as I recall, Shadows Upon Lassadar: Siege at Dalnish was entered in the brainstorming phase and it went on to win the contest. I think it is a valuable thing for designers to get feedback early in the development process. I feel that the good about starting an entry thread in the Brainstorming phase (getting feedback) outweighs the bad (some games not being finished in time for the contest).
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John "Omega" Williams
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Rocconteur wrote:
[q="Omega2064"]
Also: I'd love it if the official contest entry threads were def required to be in one place. Last year they could be in the contest forum or the design forum and it got confusing to find them.


This too. Put the designs in the design forum not the damn contest forum which is for listing contests.
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Jack Bennett
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chansen2794 wrote:
pusherman42 wrote:
It's not like we can play the games before the first day of the "play period" so having a bunch of unfinished games floating around doesn't hurt anyone. I'd just make sure you don't tell Chris to enter your game when it's just a fart in the wind. Wait until it's (let's not stick with this metaphor) to be entered into the contest thread.
There were lots of games that were entered as Brainstorming ideas that never got beyond that point. On the other hand, as I recall, Shadows Upon Lassadar: Siege at Dalnish was entered in the brainstorming phase and it went on to win the contest. I think it is a valuable thing for designers to get feedback early in the development process. I feel that the good about starting an entry thread in the Brainstorming phase (getting feedback) outweighs the bad (some games not being finished in time for the contest).

And I agree, they should be posted. I wasn't very clear, I don't think.

I'm saying that there's no reason I can see to just not post everything, regardless of stage. If it's all in the design forum, then it doesn't matter if you're "in the contest" or if you drop. It's still in the right place for you to get feedback and you can easily just have a link to your WIP thread removed if you know you can't get it done in time.

And rereading my first post, it reads like I think the exact opposite. Go me. I guess I was just saying that posting a WIP thread at any stage, and being in the contest, are two different things. If you think being in the contest will help you get more people to look at your brainstorming WIP, then go for it.
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Rocco Privetera
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chansen2794 wrote:


I agree that it would be nice to keep them in the same forum so it is easier to find them.

For me it doesn't matter as long as they are all in one place. I have no problem with them being in design (that makes sense to me), just when I obsessively look to see what are up with the contest entrants ten times a day I only want to check one place

As far as when a design can make it into the contest, I suppose it doesn't do any harm if half-finished designs are in, especially since last year (i think) you had to specify in the thread title if it was playtest ready or not, which is more or less than same thing.

One thing to maybe consider - when a thread/game is playtest ready, it might be nice to see when that happened (a posting in the thread, or maybe a date in the contest thread). If someone is looking for threads to consider making vassal mods or video reviews or whatever, you can tackle the ones finished sooner.

Same goes for anybody doing vassal mod/video services - no sense duplicating efforts (if you do a vassal mod I might want to do a video play of something else instead). You could ask that people programming mods or videos or whatnot announce in a thread somewhere. That's more of a courtesy than anything.
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Rocco Privetera
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pusherman42 wrote:

And I agree, they should be posted. I wasn't very clear, I don't think.

I'm saying that there's no reason I can see to just not post everything, regardless of stage. If it's all in the design forum, then it doesn't matter if you're "in the contest" or if you drop. It's still in the right place for you to get feedback and you can easily just have a link to your WIP thread removed if you know you can't get it done in time.

And rereading my first post, it reads like I think the exact opposite. Go me. I guess I was just saying that posting a WIP thread at any stage, and being in the contest, are two different things. If you think being in the contest will help you get more people to look at your brainstorming WIP, then go for it.

Yeah, this.
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Michele Esmanech
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Chris, when could a WIP thread-Blog be created, in order to be an eligible entry in the contest(proven the components won't be posted before August 2013)?
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Pelle Nilsson
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Ikim wrote:
Chris, when could a WIP thread-Blog be created, in order to be an eligible entry in the contest(proven the components won't be posted before August 2013)?

I would say that adding an entry thread, even without components, is still against the spirit of the competition rules, because it would invite to unfair pre-contest feedback from others (if not... what is the purpose of having the thread anyway?).
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Michele Esmanech
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Last year, the contest started in may, but Chris accepted games that had a WIP thread that started in February-March, as long as components weren't available.

I'm not saying it has to be the same this year. I'm just curious.
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Rocco Privetera
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I'd vote to wait until the contest started.

This year, I plan on posting a thread where the first thing I do is put forth 3-4 ideas of games, and get feedback on which one to work on. Even something as simple as that would be getting some feedback which improves my chances.
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Chris Hansen
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If given the option, I would prefer to play with the green pieces, please.
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Ikim wrote:
Chris, when could a WIP thread-Blog be created, in order to be an eligible entry in the contest(proven the components won't be posted before August 2013)?
That's probably TBD at this time. I'd like to keep the time range narrower than previous years. The focus is designing new games but I'd also like the games to be as good as possible which means giving adequate time to design them.
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Michele Esmanech
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chansen2794 wrote:
Ikim wrote:
Chris, when could a WIP thread-Blog be created, in order to be an eligible entry in the contest(proven the components won't be posted before August 2013)?
That's probably TBD at this time. I'd like to keep the time range narrower than previous years. The focus is designing new games but I'd also like the games to be as good as possible which means giving adequate time to design them.

Ok, then I won't talk about my game in my blog... I did give out a few hints, actually, here but I'll stop there, and pick up where I left off, when the time comes.

cheers and thanks
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Mike NZ
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chansen2794 wrote:
This space reserved for a working copy of the 2013 contest rules.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy!
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mads l. brynnum
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What I find a bit weird about the timeframe is that I could essentially have a finished game in my drawers (or on my computer, as It were) which would be allowed to enter, but at the same time a game which I worked a bit on a couple of moths ago and posted about couldn't. I understand the reasoning, but for me personally a design contest is not a thing that motivates me to make games, it motivates me to finish them. And while a couple of months is an ok timeframe to make a game, I would much rather be able to work on it as I find the time during the year and then finish it for the competition. Makes for better games, I think.
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Michele Esmanech
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mads b. wrote:
What I find a bit weird about the timeframe is that I could essentially have a finished game in my drawers (or on my computer, as It were) which would be allowed to enter, but at the same time a game which I worked a bit on a couple of moths ago and posted about couldn't. I understand the reasoning, but for me personally a design contest is not a thing that motivates me to make games, it motivates me to finish them. And while a couple of months is an ok timeframe to make a game, I would much rather be able to work on it as I find the time during the year and then finish it for the competition. Makes for better games, I think.

I agree 100% , but what you say doesn't apply to This contest, only, but to any contest, actually.
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mads l. brynnum
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Yes and no. It applies to BGG contests, yes, but in many other contests - writing, designing, etc - you won't see rules about when the subjected material is supposed to be made because you can rarely check it.
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Pelle Nilsson
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mads b. wrote:
Yes and no. It applies to BGG contests, yes, but in many other contests - writing, designing, etc - you won't see rules about when the subjected material is supposed to be made because you can rarely check it.

Can't recall any competition, for board or computer games, that allows games made public before some date. That would make it more like a best-of-award than a design competition.

If you allow or not working on the game before differs and I have no strong opinion on that, but I prefer to keep the contest focused on a short time window, not having some entry threads up for months in advance.

If there is no time window I prefer the way the One Page Rulebook competition is doing, adding new challanges (themes) but not closing old ones. Of course no way to have a winner, but I don't think that is important to most.
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DoctorMike Reddy
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mads b. wrote:
... but for me personally a design contest is not a thing that motivates me to make games, it motivates me to finish them.
#1GAM "One Game A Month" is just right for you then. That's about motivation to finish games. See http://onegameamonth.com/ for details. Not exactly a design competition in the BGG sense, but perfect motivation, and a very inspiring community. It certainly got my creative juices flowing, so might help you to get a compo entry here that wasn't just a finish upper, but genuinely new. There's a small but growing tabletop element among the more common video game developers, with both sides trying out novel techniques. Worth a look!
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mads l. brynnum
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There's a difference between making games public and discussing them in a WIP thread. And personally I would love to have the opportunity to discuss a game with the community when I have the time to work on it rather than just when there's a competition. However, this is not something overly important for me and I can see why one would want to do it another way.
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Chris Hansen
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If given the option, I would prefer to play with the green pieces, please.
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I agree with what pelni said about not being a "best of" award. I thought that last year was starting to veer a little close to that with the very wide entry range. I wanted to avoid that this year and just focus on it being a design contest.

mads b. wrote:
There's a difference between making games public and discussing them in a WIP thread.
This is very true. I know that several people are already working on design ideas for the contest, are excited about them, and want to discuss them. I don't necessarily want anyone to keep their game ideas under lock and key, but I don't want some designers getting six months of feedback from BGG users while others are not. I'm trying to find the balance of fairness.

Maybe the rule could be, you can discuss your game ideas in a blog or personal threads but you may not post a WIP thread until the entry date. Game components may not be publicly posted on the internet until the entry date. Thoughts?
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Chris Hansen
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If given the option, I would prefer to play with the green pieces, please.
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Since starting the PNP News Blog, I've noticed that not very many solitaire games have been released this year. I've been wondering recently if some designers are holding off on releasing solitaire print and play games until the contest. This wasn't my intention with the contest but it is an interesting side effect. As these bgg contest get more popular, are the bulk of solitaire games going to be released at the same time for the contest? Same thing with two-player games and other annual contests?
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Chris Hansen
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If given the option, I would prefer to play with the green pieces, please.
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I just saw this today and thought it was relevant to the topic at hand.
Long time no posting... but say hello to DYSTOPIAN
In this post, Michele Esmanech gives a high level description of his game and says that he is planning on releasing it in the 2013 Solo PNP Contest. He also notes that he is not going to publicly release any files until the contest starts.

I'm fine with this sort of thing. If designers want to post a sneak peek post to whet our appetites, I think that's totally appropriate.
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Michele Esmanech
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chansen2794 wrote:
I just saw this today and thought it was relevant to the topic at hand.
Long time no posting... but say hello to DYSTOPIAN
In this post, Michele Esmanech gives a high level description of his game and says that he is planning on releasing it in the 2013 Solo PNP Contest. He also notes that he is not going to publicly release any files until the contest starts.

I'm fine with this sort of thing. If designers want to post a sneak peek post to whet our appetites, I think that's totally appropriate.

Great to hear you're ok with it... I was getting worried surprise and that blog post is the reason I asked what you thought about it... Glad everything is all right... thumbsup
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Chris Hansen
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If given the option, I would prefer to play with the green pieces, please.
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That blog post is a few days old but I only saw it today. I'm down to just over 150 items in my subscription feed after my two weeks away from BGG.

Final exams are done tonight and then normal life can resume!
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Nate K
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Quote:
down to just over 150 items in my subscription feed after my two weeks away from BGG.

Down to.

Over 150 items.


I think the highest my subscription feed has EVER been was around 120 items!
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Pelle Nilsson
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chansen2794 wrote:
Since starting the PNP News Blog, I've noticed that not very many solitaire games have been released this year. I've been wondering recently if some designers are holding off on releasing solitaire print and play games until the contest. This wasn't my intention with the contest but it is an interesting side effect. As these bgg contest get more popular, are the bulk of solitaire games going to be released at the same time for the contest? Same thing with two-player games and other annual contests?

I know exactly that happened with Text Adventure and the annual ifcomp, but I can't remember many complaining about it. Having a competition get more attention for a few niche games can be better than having a trickle of released games spread out over the year that gets less attention.

Contests can probably only have a noticeable effect on very small niche game genres. My guess is that there have been very few pnp solitaire games released per year except for games made for this contest, even before the contest existed, so the main effect is that there are now more games, not that non-competition games disappeared anyway?
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