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Subject: Sacrificing to draw before drawing all free cards rss

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Tim S
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Is it mandatory that you draw all of your free cards before doing a sacrifice draw? I know normally you'd never want to, but let's say you are about to fight the Cannibals and know that the "Stop" aging card is about to come up because of a "Sort 3" on the previous hazard. Could you sacrifice a life point in order to draw that card and place it on the right, nullifying its ability?

From the rulebook:
"After drawing the free cards you can »sacrifice« additional life points and place them back into the reserve to draw 1 fighting card for each sacrificed life point. You place the additional card(s) on the right side of the hazard card."

If you look at it in a strict sense, because it says "after," then you'd be forced to draw all of your free cards before choosing to sacrifice draw, but is that the spirit in which it was intended?
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Ken Dilloo
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You have the option of stopping your free draw at any time.
 
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Russ Williams
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bigloo33 wrote:
You have the option of stopping your free draw at any time.

Yes, but the OP's question is whether you can do another free draw after you've spent a life to draw a non-free card.
 
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russ wrote:
Yes, but the OP's question is whether you can do another free draw after you've spent a life to draw a non-free card.

I'd think he could if he wants, but I don't see the point. This is the second thread he's started where his goal is to defer the drawing of free cards, and I have to wonder whether he's actually playing or just devising thought problems (see here for why I thought the last one made no sense).

If I used a sort 3 while I still had free draws, and saw a stop card, I'd either discard the stop card or order it so that it was my last free draw. And to forestall the next question, there is no case where I would use a sort 3 if I had more than 2 free draws remaining.
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Russ Williams
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In theory you might know the next card is "Stop" because it's the last one in the deck, not from having used the "sort 3" card.
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russ wrote:
In theory you might know the next card is "Stop" because it's the last one in the deck, not from having used the "sort 3" card.

Good point - that could happen. Let me revise to say that I think you can pay to place cards on the right and draw free cards on the left in any order you choose, but in the real world paying before you need to is an ability you would seldom excercise.
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Rob Rob
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While I'm pretty sure you can pay for cards on the right at any time, with the exception of this one very specific situation (stop card is last card) I can't think of really any reason you'd want to buy cards for the right before you'd drawn all your free cards on the left.
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Tim S
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Sphere wrote:
If I used a sort 3 while I still had free draws, and saw a stop card, I'd either discard the stop card or order it so that it was my last free draw.
I never said I had free draws left, but that's beside the point. I already had enough points to beat the hazard, so I used my sort 3 before ending the fight so I could see what was coming up. One was the "Stop" aging card and another one was a "Destroy". I'd be crazy to discard the "Stop" when I have a chance to destroy it next turn instead.

Sphere wrote:
And to forestall the next question, there is no case where I would use a sort 3 if I had more than 2 free draws remaining.
No case? What about the situation I described above where you already have enough to beat the hazard, but you haven't used sort 3 yet? I can think of plenty others too.

I mentioned in the other thread I'm doing this for a programming project, which means I have to take these possibilities into account, however seldom they would occur in real life.
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timxrb wrote:
Sphere wrote:
If I used a sort 3 while I still had free draws, and saw a stop card, I'd either discard the stop card or order it so that it was my last free draw.
I never said I had free draws left, but that's beside the point. I already had enough points to beat the hazard, so I used my sort 3 before ending the fight so I could see what was coming up. One was the "Stop" aging card and another one was a "Destroy". I'd be crazy to discard the "Stop" when I have a chance to destroy it next turn instead.

I agree it's smart to use your sort 3 even if you've already got enough points to defeat the hazard, and if you find both the stop and the destroy, you'll in most cases want to resolve them before resolving the hazard. But there's simply no advantage in paying to place the stop on the right when you can place it for free in the final free draw position on the left. If it's the last free card on the left, it has no effect, and you can order the cards as you choose.

If you have 1 or 2 free slots remaining, you can always put the stop last. If you have 3 slots and also want to play the 3rd card you saw immediately, you could still play the stop last. And if you already have the numbers to defeat the hazard, I assume you'll do that after destroying the stop rather than continue drawing.

timxrb wrote:
I mentioned in the other thread I'm doing this for a programming project, which means I have to take these possibilities into account, however seldom they would occur in real life.

Having worked as a software engineer since the 1980s, I wish you well.
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russ wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
You have the option of stopping your free draw at any time.

Yes, but the OP's question is whether you can do another free draw after you've spent a life to draw a non-free card.

It just occurred to me that we know we can do this in at least one case: when a stop card has interrupted our free draws and we subsequently destroy it, the rules tell us we can resume our free draws. I think that adds weight to the theory that we can suspend our free draws voluntarily and then resume in those cases where it would prove useful.
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Russ Williams
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Sphere wrote:
russ wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
You have the option of stopping your free draw at any time.

Yes, but the OP's question is whether you can do another free draw after you've spent a life to draw a non-free card.

It just occurred to me that we know we can do this in at least one case: when a stop card has interrupted our free draws and we subsequently destroy it, the rules tell us we can resume our free draws. I think that adds weight to the theory that we can suspend our free draws voluntarily and then resume in those cases where it would prove useful.

I thought of that as well, but it doesn't actually prove you can resume free draws after spending a life for a draw: you could have destroyed the stop card with one of your previously freely drawn cards.
 
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Ian Moffett
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English Rules, Page 4 as follows...

You draw one fighting card after another from the Robinson stack and place them face up on the left side of the hazard card. You can draw and place new cards on the left side until the number equals the value of the white box.

AFTER drawing the free cards you can "sacrifice" additional life points and place them back into the reserve to draw 1 fighting card for each sacrificed life point.
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Pierre Beri
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russ wrote:
In theory you might know the next card is "Stop" because it's the last one in the deck, not from having used the "sort 3" card.
I think the "Stop" card's effect still applies if it's on the right side of the Hazard card and you haven't drawn all your free cards.
Although the rules say "if you place the Stop card on the left side... stop drawing free cards", I think whoever wrote them took a shortcut and didn't consider the rarest specific impossible situation where you would like to sacrifice to place "Stop" on the right side to cancel its effect* before you have drawn all your free cards.

*because you have no Destroy + you know it's the last card of the deck + you have no Sort 3

Mofman wrote:
AFTER drawing the free cards you can "sacrifice" additional life points and place them back into the reserve to draw 1 fighting card for each sacrificed life point.
In this case too, I think the rules here took a shortcut and whoever wrote them didn't think of the rarest specific situation where you would like to sacrifice before you have drawn all your free cards.

So, to sum up, I'd say:
- "Stop" always applies, whether on the right or on the left side
- you can sacrifice before having drawn all your free cards

However, I'll wait until this is confirmed officially.
 
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Radosław Michalak
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Sorry, but I don't care about your "I think it's shortcut".
Stop
Quote:
If you must place this card on the left side of the
hazard card, you immediately must stop drawing free cards

Draw
Quote:
After drawing the free cards you can »sacrifice« ...


Unless translation is bad, these rules are clear.
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Clifford Jones
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But what about using a draw 2 ability (instead of spending life) to draw cards on the right side before you finish drawing on the left side, and then finishing drawing on the left. Would that be allowed?
 
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Mark L
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penncajones wrote:
But what about using a draw 2 ability (instead of spending life) to draw cards on the right side before you finish drawing on the left side, and then finishing drawing on the left. Would that be allowed?


Yes:
The Rules wrote:
After drawing each fighting card you can always decide to use the special ability of any drawn faceup fighting card
(Emphasis mine)

But note that like any other card, you can't stop in the middle of using this card's special ability to do something else, then come back to it. So if you draw one card and immediately use it, you don't then get to draw the second.
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