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Subject: Running against jinteki inquiry. rss

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criminal90210 anarch
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Can the runner choose not to steal an agenda? ( scenario: with medium the runner can access additional cards, what if the runner encounters snare n then an agenda (i:e nikei). If the runner steals the agenda he'll flatlined).

2nd, after a successful run on the Hq can gabriel santiago choose not to look at the corp's hand but still gain 2 credits.

3rd, when does gabriel gain the 2 credits? After or before accessing the hands? ( scenario: after encountering all ice gabriel left with no credit, in order to steal fetal ai he needs to pay 2 credits. Can he use the 2 credits that he could gained by successfully run on the hq?

4 th, can u trash agenda( i: e fetal ai) using demolition run or imp?
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Kendall Merriman
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1. Unless there is some cost to stealing it (i.e. red herrings, fetal ai), the runner steals an agenda on encounter, no exceptions.

2. No.

3. The run is declared successful before cards are accessed, which is when gabe gets his money.

4. Yes.
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The Lord of Space
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1. No

2. No

3. Before accessing cards, so Yes.

4. Yes (but only if you couldn't steal it due to being unable to afford to)
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Scott Hartman
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on #2, yes. A successful run does not need to access the cards, so you can get through the Ice then choose not to access cards.

edit: just reading through the timing structure again and I was wrong. that seems like an odd ruling to me.
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B C Z
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jizai90 wrote:
Can the runner choose not to steal an agenda? ( scenario: with medium the runner can access additional cards, what if the runner encounters snare n then an agenda (i:e nikei). If the runner steals the agenda he'll flatlined).

2nd, after a successful run on the Hq can gabriel santiago choose not to look at the corp's hand but still gain 2 credits.

3rd, when does gabriel gain the 2 credits? After or before accessing the hands? ( scenario: after encountering all ice gabriel left with no credit, in order to steal fetal ai he needs to pay 2 credits. Can he use the 2 credits that he could gained by successfully run on the hq?

4 th, can u trash agenda( i: e fetal ai) using demolition run or imp?


1) Medium: Runner must declare how many optional additional accesses they will take before starting. Once declared, they must make all declared accesses regardless of what happens during the accesses.

2) The Runner MUST make an Access of cards in HQ if the run was successful unless another effect prevents it, such as the choice offered by Account Siphon

3) Gabriel gains the credits when the run is declared successful, which is before the access phase. Refer to the FAQ updated timing structure of a Run.

4) Yes, Imp allows for cards to be trashed even if they could not normally be. Note that with Fetal AI you will STILL take the damage on Access (except from the Archives)
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shartma wrote:
on #2, yes. A successful run does not need to access the cards, so you can get through the Ice then choose not to access cards.


ORLY?

p 18 of the rules says otherwise.

The type of server attacked determines the degree and method of access, and the Runner must access cards according to the following rules:

R&D: The runner accesses the top card of R&D, and any upgrades in its root. (additional text not typed in)

HQ: The Runner accesses one random card from HQ and any upgrades in its root. (additional text not typed in)

Archives: The Runner access all cards in Archives and any upgrades in its root. (...)

Remote Server: The Runner accesses all cards in the server.
 
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Yan
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The Lord of Space wrote:
4. Yes (but only if you couldn't steal it due to being unable to afford to)

Can't find the thread again, but I thought luka ruled otherwise. You can use imp/demolition run to trash agendas (no conditions).

But maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Can anybody confirm ?
 
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The Lord of Space
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Oh, yes I was mistaken. Doing some searching leads me to believe that there was a ruling stating that additional costs to steal are optional for the runner. So you can choose to not pay it, in which case you do not steal it, then you can trash it if you have the ability to do so.

edit: actually any agenda can be trashed with something like Imp (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/910934/official-answer-about...)

Looking forward to the updated FAQ so we can find this stuff easier...
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Zhab wrote:
The Lord of Space wrote:
4. Yes (but only if you couldn't steal it due to being unable to afford to)

Can't find the thread again, but I thought luka ruled otherwise. You can use imp/demolition run to trash agendas (no conditions).

But maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Can anybody confirm ?


Accessing happens before the paid ability of Imp to trash it.

You access Fetal AI, you take 2 damage - period.
 
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Yan
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byronczimmer wrote:
Accessing happens before the paid ability of Imp to trash it.

You access Fetal AI, you take 2 damage - period.

I know that. But he was saying that you can't trash an agenda at all unless it involve additional cost like an installed red herrings.

I'm saying that you can (no conditions). There was no mention of fetal AI's ability. I was not implying that you can use imp to avoid the net damage or anything.
 
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Zhab wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Accessing happens before the paid ability of Imp to trash it.

You access Fetal AI, you take 2 damage - period.

I know that. But he was saying that you can't trash an agenda at all unless it involve additional cost like an installed red herrings.

I'm saying that you can (no conditions). There was no mention of fetal AI's ability. I was not implying that you can use imp to avoid the net damage or anything.


The original question had Fetal AI in question 4.

Imp/DemoRun can both be used to trash (any) Agenda without scoring it.

There's not a lot of reason to do so though (except maybe to trash something out from under a Red Herrings).

 
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Micheal Keane
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byronczimmer wrote:
1) Medium: Runner must declare how many optional additional accesses they will take before starting. Once declared, they must make all declared accesses regardless of what happens during the accesses.


I thought Lukas ruled the opposite? Once you've gone past the "mandatory" accesses (all upgrades, standard 1 R&D card, mandatory additional cards from Maker's Eye), you can choose, after accessing each card whether to continue up to the number of optional accesses.

Did a little bit of searching and didn't find the answer in the thread I thought I would. Maybe I'm misremembering things. Do you have a citation?
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Yan
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ffaristocrat wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
1) Medium: Runner must declare how many optional additional accesses they will take before starting. Once declared, they must make all declared accesses regardless of what happens during the accesses.


I thought Lukas ruled the opposite? Once you've gone past the "mandatory" accesses (all upgrades, standard 1 R&D card, mandatory additional cards from Maker's Eye), you can choose, after accessing each card whether to continue up to the number of optional accesses.

Did a little bit of searching and didn't find the answer in the thread I thought I would. Maybe I'm misremembering things. Do you have a citation?

No citation, but I remember the same as byronczimmer.

Edit: silly me, this one is in the FAQ.

FAQ page 2 wrote:
If the Runner has a Medium installed with 3 virus counters on it, how many cards must he access from R&D? If he can choose how many he accesses, at what point in time does he choose?

The Runner may choose how many additional cards he is accessing, but this decision occurs before he accesses thefirst card (at the beginning of step 4.5 of a run). With 3 virus counters on Medium, the Runner must access at least one card and may access up to 3.
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Yes, FAQ, thank you Zhab.
 
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Justin Purdy
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personwholives wrote:
1. Unless there is some cost to stealing it (i.e. red herrings, fetal ai), the runner steals an agenda on encounter, no exceptions.


One more question about this. If I access a Fetal AI, and I am capable of paying the two credits on it, MUST I pay the two credits and steal the agenda? A strict reading of the rulebook would seem to indicate that I must, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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JustP1 wrote:
One more question about this. If I access a Fetal AI, and I am capable of paying the two credits on it, MUST I pay the two credits and steal the agenda? A strict reading of the rulebook would seem to indicate that I must, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


Normally, the Runner must steal Agendas, but Fetal AI's additional cost gives the Runner the opportunity to decline. The Runner will just have to pay it again later (and take the Brain Damage unless it somehow ends up in Archives) or let the Corp get the 2 VPs.
 
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Ryan Skillman
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If there's a ruling out there someone has seen I'd love to see it, but I don't see how Fetal AI gives a choice; it's worded similarly to Tollbooth in that sense. To me these are the cogent points:
a) Successful runs MUST access what was in the server.
b) You access Fetal AI on a successful run, because you must, taking 2 damage.
c) Now as far as I knew, you MUST steal an agenda that is accessed, and the working to Fetal AI is 'As an additional cost to steal Fetal AI, the runner MUST pay 2'


So as I see it, the only way you could have money and choose to NOT steal Fetal AI once accessed is if there's a ruling (or rules I missed) on either Fetal AI itself, or stating that you can access agendas without choosing to steal them. Without seeing such a ruling, I think it should be considered something the runner MUST do to steal, because there's NO mechanism to choose to not steal once you have accessed an agenda.
 
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Andy Mills
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RyanIsSkillman wrote:
So as I see it, the only way you could have money and choose to NOT steal Fetal AI once accessed is if there's a ruling (or rules I missed) on either Fetal AI itself, or stating that you can access agendas without choosing to steal them. Without seeing such a ruling, I think it should be considered something the runner MUST do to steal, because there's NO mechanism to choose to not steal once you have accessed an agenda.


Here you go. The ruling exists, and I found it with just a little bit of searching this forum.
 
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Aaron s
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In some ways this is the ruling that has to exist. Otherwise you would get in to a situation where you'd break the game if you couldn't afford it.
 
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