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Subject: Which buildings are best? rss

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Jeff Dawson
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Missouri
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Which buildings do you think are the best? In PR it is clear some buildings are much better than others while others are, in most situations, useless. I have only played a couple of times, but some building seem to be much more powerful than others. It seems like players that get the good buildings early have a big advantage over the other players. They can just wait until the end of that worker placement and get their building every time. Are we just too reluctent to pay VPs to players that have purhased the "good" buildings, or is there a balance there?
 
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Chris Bailey
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Wouldn't it be more fun to figure out what works well yourself?
 
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Adam Smiles
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The ratio of people to cake is too big.
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Yes you are too reluctant to use other people's buildings. The reason to build good buildings early in the game, is so that you will continue to get paid in VPs for their continued use. The ability to use your own buildings for cheap is nice, but not the primary reason you build buildings. If the other players are dropping out early and leaving you a good building because they don't want to give you a VP, then you should coast to victory very easily.
 
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Seth Jaffee
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ixnay66 wrote:
Wouldn't it be more fun to figure out what works well yourself?
Not as much fun as berating people for asking honest questions.

If the problem is that people are building something and sort of reserving that buildings action for themselves then I think the answer here is "Yes, you are too unwilling to pay the VP". Why don't you give it a shot - let someone build the good building, tand then use it yourself if you want the ability (even if it gives them a VP). See what happens. From the sound of things, it's likely your buddies will not realise what you're doing (they may complain that you're giving points away) - but probably you'll end up ahead in the end. 3 cubes from one of those production buildings is worth a lot more than 1 VP.

Another option might be to place in the um... whats-it-called, the one that controls the Provost. That way if someone wants to use the shiney new building they just built, they'll have to pay for it. I used this tactic a lot in a 2 player game - place in the move-the-provost spot whenever a good building was at the end of the road, and my opponent dare not play near the end of the road lest I deactivate his worker. Then I could play near the end of the road at my liesure.

- Seth
 
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Jorge Montero
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St Louis
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I think you should not be afraid of giving people PPs, especially if they still have the money and workers to use their own buildings. Let me try to explain why.

I'll make the assumption that, just like the 'rules of thumb' thread suggests, 1 PP has about the same value as one resource cube. We could debate that the conversion is not perfect, but it's certainly not far off the mark in most situations.

Imagine that, in the early game, an opponent has made a 2 food/1 cloth production building. It's your turn, you want food, and you can either pick your opponent's 2 food building, or the baseline 1 wood/1 food building. Your opponent goes after you, and will take the other one.

If you take your opponent's building, you take 2 resource cubes, and your opponent takes 1 cube and 1 PP. Converting it all to PPs, you both got 2 PPs

If you take the neutral building, you get 1 resource cube, and your opponent takes 2 cubes. Doing the same conversion, you got 1 PP and he got 2 PPs

So, in a 2 player game, you'd be better off using your opponent's building. If we assume there's a third player out there, going for the 2 cube building can be even better.

Since in the early game 1 cube can be worth more than 1 PP (while you are building the dungeon, you could be getting 5 VPs and 2 favors for 3 cubes) it seems logical to use your opponent's good building.

There are situations where you might not want to use their buildings, but trying to avoid them altogether is just making the builder's position stronger.
 
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Jeff Dawson
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Well Chris...I have my own opinions, but I would like to know if others agree, and see if I can learn. It appears that the 6 coin marketplace is very good early. It allows you to generate money early or get VPs. It seems has a worker on it every turn early on and well through the middle game. Like all production-based games, getting an early money source is critical. However, if someone jumps onto it...you get the VPs, and can play somewhere else.
 
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Michelle Zentis
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I'm particularly fond of the grey buildings that give two grey and either a purple or pink cube to the worker AND a grey or purple/pink cube to the owner if the building produces for somebody else's worker. They're a nice way to quietly build a stock of grey, which is helpful for the larger blue buildings.

The buildings that let you build residences are also quite nice.

And it does sound like you've been too reluctant to give other players a VP to use their building. Unless there's a huge imbalance in the number of buildings owned by the various players, the VP bonuses tend to even out. If you use somebody else's building, that makes somebody else that much more likely to use yours.
 
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Alan Kwan
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Compare the large market with a wood production building. With the former, you sell one cube for $6. With the latter, you get two cubes. The difference is 3 cubes for $6. Do you really think that the large marker is stronger, especially in the resource-scarce early game? I would disagree (for the average case); it's just group-think in your group (and some others).

And that's why the large market gives the builder more PP's when built, and has an easier resource requirement. Because it is weaker than the production buildings.
 
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jbrier
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the production buildings are the best buildings, which is why they pay less VP up front, but even then they are better (especially the stone production bldgs- they even give you a resource!). along with the mason, they are generally guaranteed to get hit the most, but the disadvantage of owning the mason is that you either get to use it or get a point from it, and generally you WANT to use it when you can (unless your cubes are needed for something more immediately pertinent). with production buildings this occurs less because any one building is generally not the only way to get cubes of a specific color.

i think that going on the carpenter as the first player on turn one is about as scripted as settler>quarry in PR. owning buildings is THAT big of a deal.

i never even think twice about going into someone else's building unless they are substantially in the lead - mostly because it is likely that someone else will go there anyways, so if regardless they are going to get the point i might as well get what i wanted.

the building that lets you sell a cube for six is one of the worst buildings to own, because its popularity depends on how broke players find themselves, which could be not at all if they are exploiting the money track. on the other hand, resources will ALWAYS be popular, as well as the mason and lawyer.


 
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Jeff Dawson
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After a few more plays, I think I have come around to your conclusions. Production building do seem to be the best. I bought the marketplace with another group, and it seldom got used. I was under the impression that "cash was king" like PR and other production games, but I feel like cubes act more like currenct in that game than coins do. Coins feel more like "action points" like in Hansa or something like that. They don't let you do anything other than perform an action (with the exception of a few buildings).
 
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Alan Kwan
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If you build the large Market, and others are not using it, you need to create the reason: build the large Peddler, or the Bank or the Church. If they still don't use them, then you can you them yourselves.
 
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Jonathan Hessler
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I prefer the production buildings in the early and midgame. Near the endgame I go for the six point PP buildings to get a scoring boost. I also try to corner the market with my production buildings. Currently I am favoring cloth. I build a residence on the neutral cloth spot and then try to build all of the cloth producing buildings.
 
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