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Subject: Just received new version from Game Surplus rss

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Remy Gibson
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We played it last night; it's an interesting little game with 3 players, and looks like it could get crazy with more (which is not necessarily bad).

One observation, though: On BGG it is listed as being for 3-8 players, but this new version (2012, fifth edition) is only for 3-6 players. This was achieved, as far as I can tell, by removing all of the high-numbered cards; each of the six suits runs from 0 to only 14.
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Deb Wentworth
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I can't imagine wanting to play this game with more than 6 anyway. Great little game, although unforgiving a tiny brain fart!
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Michael Mesich
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I've played with 8 several times. It's pure chaos, but pretty entertaining still as it mainly just turns into a party game.

I wonder if this hobbles some of the variants, though.
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Remy Gibson
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mmesich wrote:
I've played with 8 several times. It's pure chaos, but pretty entertaining still as it mainly just turns into a party game.

I wonder if this hobbles some of the variants, though.

Perusing the included English rules, there is a lengthy set of rules for a variant called "Hat Trick." It wants to use only 3 colors but all the cards up to number 20.

I only skimmed the rules, though, so I don't know whether/how it could be adapted to the slimmer decks.
 
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Michael Mesich
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They removed cards but didn't update the rulebook variants.

That's kind of unfortunate.

Have you played with the old cards? I suppose the biggest problem is blue/brown color differentiation.

Did anyone have trouble with colors in the new cardset?
 
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Cristian Cano
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mmesich wrote:
They removed cards but didn't update the rulebook variants.

That's kind of unfortunate.

Have you played with the old cards? I suppose the biggest problem is blue/brown color differentiation.

Did anyone have trouble with colors in the new cardset?


You wanted to say purple/brown instead of blue/brown, wasn't you?
 
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Robert
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I just heard about this as well. Terrible news! Sticheln's biggest selling point was the deck and all the games it could play, not the game itself. All it really needed was a few more cards so the suits were all equal length, instead of three being longer than the other three. Now it's just a six color deck with more limited utility.

Is there anything else that can approach the dream of six suits 0-20? Something I can tell people to buy? I guess I'm going to have to get off my butt about making a custom deck soon. Hmpf.
 
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Snowden Wyatt
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xethair wrote:
I just heard about this as well. Terrible news! Sticheln's biggest selling point was the deck and all the games it could play, not the game itself. All it really needed was a few more cards so the suits were all equal length, instead of three being longer than the other three. Now it's just a six color deck with more limited utility.

Is there anything else that can approach the dream of six suits 0-20? Something I can tell people to buy? I guess I'm going to have to get off my butt about making a custom deck soon. Hmpf.


As of 10/12 Games Surplus now has the 4th edition in stock which is the older edition that supports 3-8 players.
 
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JT Call
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xethair wrote:
I just heard about this as well. Terrible news! Sticheln's biggest selling point was the deck and all the games it could play, not the game itself. All it really needed was a few more cards so the suits were all equal length, instead of three being longer than the other three. Now it's just a six color deck with more limited utility.

Is there anything else that can approach the dream of six suits 0-20? Something I can tell people to buy? I guess I'm going to have to get off my butt about making a custom deck soon. Hmpf.


Broomstick Monkey Games (my publishing company) actually has plans to Kickstart a deck like this in 2014. It's a tease/precursor to our flagship game (Royal Strawberries), so each card will have unique artwork on it representing medieval/fantasy characters (Queen, King, Gardener, Wizard, Dragon, Knight, etc). I'm planning on at least six suits/kingdoms -- Desert (yellow), Mountain (red), Tundra (white), River (blue), Forest (green), and Savannah (beige) -- but there may be stretch goals for two more -- Badlands (black) and Marsh (purple).

I had thought to make each suit 0-15, but it seems that the Sticheln crowd would like a deck that went from 0-20. We might be able to do that. I'm also hoping to include an extra 1 and 7 for each suit for those that want to play Mu or one of its variants (Mü & More, Mü & Lots More).

Edit: Also, I'm color blind myself, so I care very much about the suits and their colors being easy to distinguish from a distance.
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torontoraptors
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talusproteus wrote:

Edit: Also, I'm color blind myself, so I care very much about the suits and their colors being easy to distinguish from a distance.

This is a very important edit =) Look forward to seeing that deck.
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JT Call
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torontoraptors wrote:
talusproteus wrote:

Edit: Also, I'm color blind myself, so I care very much about the suits and their colors being easy to distinguish from a distance.

This is a very important edit =) Look forward to seeing that deck.


Amen!
 
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Robert
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talusproteus wrote:
I had thought to make each suit 0-15, but it seems that the Sticheln crowd would like a deck that went from 0-20. We might be able to do that. I'm also hoping to include an extra 1 and 7 for each suit for those that want to play Mu or one of its variants (Mü & More, Mü & Lots More).

0-20 would be wonderful, if the art isn't off-putting. Suits going to 20 also opens up Foppen and Mit List und Tucke, both excellent games (and neither published in English -- you might see if their owners would let you include rules with your deck). Eight suits opens up Titan (Colossal Arena) as an easy play, or lets people split the deck and play two four suit games simultaneously. A very versatile gaming tool for those of us enjoying card games.

Note that you don't really need extra 1's and 7's for Mu. You can use the 11 and 17 as doubles, easily enough. I think you would be better off to add some joker-type cards for special circumstances. I have several games that benefit from a few "clearly not any suit" cards. I might suggest at least four animal-theme jokers, like, say, a sparrow, dog, dragon, and phoenix, for example ;)

A 0-20 deck also has enough cards to substitute for tokens and play Die Dieben Siegeln, another excellent game you could see if they might let you include rules for (if I'm remembering right, it had an English run as "Zing" or somesuch nonsense.

Quote:
Edit: Also, I'm color blind myself, so I care very much about the suits and their colors being easy to distinguish from a distance.

Very good to hear. Something that will help a bit is low light would be good too. Sticheln does not do as well there, since all suits look exactly the same if the color isn't clear.

I might also suggest using the suits/ranks in all four corners style. Lets people fan cards left if their so inclined, and makes it more likely for an identifying corner to stick out in a pile.

Here's a design challenge for you: This kind of deck is great, but you get very uneven wear on the cards and in a pile, some are clearly darker edged than others. With the high numbers being least commonly included, they can stand out to a careful eye. May be impossible to compensate for, but if some inspiration comes to you...
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JT Call
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That's exactly the kind of input I'm looking to hear, Robert. We want to make the deck as versatile as possible for gamers with lots of flexible playing options. We also want to be careful not to infringe on the intellectual property of existing games, but if those designers (or publishers) are willing to let us share their rules in our rulebook (properly credited), I would of course be overjoyed to include them.

Regarding some of the points you brought up:

- 1s and 7s vs 11s and 17s: I have considered this exact solution, actually, but I wondered if it might be best to provide people with the extras anyway (for ease of use). On the other hand, it would be great to have 16 more cards available (8 for "special suits/wilds" and 8 for player aids that tell you how much certain cards are worth in Mü, Haggis, etc). Also, taking out the duplicate cards means people won't have to dig through the deck and pull those out every time they want to play something other than Mü.

- The 0 cards are all jesters/jokers (one of whom might be dressed like a dog), 14s are wizards, 15s are dragons, 16s are devils, 17s are angels, and 18s might be Basilisks (part bird, part dragon). The last one is still uncertain (it might change if we don't have the Mü duplicates, for example). In any event, I figure a clever gamer can play Wizard or Tichu or Haggis or Rook or Sticheln with that combo (if they think creatively). All the same, it would be nice to just give folks those "wild" cards that don't have a number on them (dog, sparrow, dragon, and phoenix...or maybe wolf, hawk, hydra, basilisk).

Anyhow, just so I don't hijack the Sticheln thread, I am moving this discussion to the designer's forum. If you have more input/suggestions, let me know there. I'll keep the page up-to-date with design info and make a survey to gauge preferences on certain things: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1110181/one-deck-to-rule-the....

One thing I will say about the artwork: it's pretty awesome.
 
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Robert
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talusproteus wrote:
Anyhow, just so I don't hijack the Sticheln thread, I am moving this discussion to the designer's forum.

Fair enough. Will follow.
 
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James C
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This is disappointing news. The only place I can find the 4th edition is on Amazon.de and the shipping ends up costing more than the game itself. GameSurplus says they don't imagine getting the 4th edition in the foreseeable future. Any ideas?
 
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Aaron Shanowitz
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SuperGLS wrote:
This is disappointing news. The only place I can find the 4th edition is on Amazon.de and the shipping ends up costing more than the game itself. GameSurplus says they don't imagine getting the 4th edition in the foreseeable future. Any ideas?

You can pick up a copy of the card game Rage. It's also out of print, but you can get it on Amazon for around $16 after shipping. I use it solely for playing Sticheln and it works great.
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Robert
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Another long suit/rank deck being discussed over here: "The Badger Deck. Card game system in development, input/feedback is welcome! June2015: 1-104, rainbowdeck"

Hopefully at least one of these will come to fruition and fill the 6x0-20 void.
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