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Subject: Maximum PnP Capacity rss

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Willem-Jan Rensink
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Dear ladies and gentlemen,

I'm certainly not out of my brainstorm phase yet, but I have a few questions about the amount of content that your are willing to print, or gather yourself, for a PnP game. Most PnP games here are just card games, but who here is willing to take a step extra?

Card games are easy, for a lot of people is willing to print a few pages of paper, and cut out the card. But how about other things, like tiles? or the game board?

Let's take Agricola for example: People would probably be willing to print some cards (not all!) to test the game in it's early stages. But how many of you are willing to print out the houses and fields? How many of your are willing to print out the gameboard(s)after that? Going even further, how many of your would want to collect your own cubes to represent the different resources in the game? Agricola might be a wrong example due to the sheer number of components, but you get the idea.

My Questions are:

How many of your are willing to print games cards?
How many of your are willing to print 'tiles'?
How many of your are willing to print the game board?
How many of your are willing to collect their own tokens/cubes?
How much is too much?

All feedback would be appreciated
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Garry Rice
United States
Perkasie
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If the game sounds good and really intrigues me, I am willing to pretty much put in as much effort as needed! But I'm probably in a small minority. I've done 18xx games to simple card games as you can tell if one looks at my linked geek lists on my profile.

Key thing for me is capturing my interest...and I usually lean much more to doing it if the graphics are also pretty nice...spartan graphics, not as much. If I'm going to put time into a PnP copy, I want it to look nice. I'm not a quick and dirty PnP crafter (sometimes wish I was ).
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Ben O'Steen
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Bishops Stortford
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I agree, capture my interest first and then I'll look at the components list. In fact, the lack of a clear list of things I need to craft or source for the game is a real turn off.
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Manuel Ingeland
Sweden
Uppsala
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This



is my custom copy of After Pablo.

The wooden components are all handcarved, sanded and painted. All of them. Even the cubes!
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Ian Richard
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Maine
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I'll rarely print out more than 4-5 pages of anything for a game that I've never played. I'm more than happy to collect cubes/dice or other components from games I own... but investing in items for your single game are a little less likely if I don't already like it.

If I've played a game and enjoyed it I'll be happy to print more pages until I'm satisfied. The most I've done is around 30 pages of tokens and play aids for one game that I really enjoyed playing on ZunTzu.

My advice is to have a low ink/component "Demo". Make the game playable with the minimum construction effort so that I can enjoy the game before making a commitment. Once I know a game is worth it I'll happily print out aids or pieces that are more thematic and convenient.


 
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Robert Beachler
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Woodburn
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Manuel, you are insane.

As others said it just depends on how much work the person wants to put in. I've yet to undertake a massive Magic Realm sized PnP project but it is rare something that big will come around.
 
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Liquidus
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Helena
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To answer you question, if the game is good, I'm willing to do all of that. The problem is needing to print the material before playing, thus not knowing if you'll really enjoy it or not. Unless you made a Vassal module to test/try it out first it's a chance that PnP players will have to take for a new PnP game with no public feedback.
 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Kentwood
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As others have said, it all depends on the game and what a player is, and is not, willing to invest into it.

Take a look at games like Magic Realm , Merchant of Venus , Dark Moon , and many many many other games out there players have printed and assembled. Some have gotten very elaborate.

The drawback is that the more elaborate a PnP is. The less likely as many people will be interested in it simply for lack of ability to play it.

One big factor is the components. Boards, maps, Counters, tiles and cards? All fine. Stickering 6-siders. Ok to so-so. Stickering 8-siders, not so good to no. And anything involving really fine papercrafting may put players off.

Thake a look at this monster!
Escape from the Haunted Mansion

 
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Sturv Tafvherd
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North Carolina
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Cards: typically 9 or 10 to a page, I'm used to printing and cutting out anywhere between 60 to 120 ... essentially two decks worth. I've gone as high as 200, anything more and I start seriously questioning why I'm doing it.


Tiles: I usually see these as 1 inch squares, which can give you about 70 to a page. With so many on a page, it's usually no problem to print off 5 pages worth and cutting those up.

But that's really where the effort is -- the cutting. The printouts are usually mounted onto something sturdier. So you either print out onto full sheet stickers, cut the stickers out, and mount those. Or you sticker the full sheet onto chipboard/cardboard, and then cut that out. Or you print it out onto cardstock and glue that on and cut it out.

My typical tile-making process is to print on cardstock and laminate it, and then cutting that out.

Any way you do it, it's a process with a high time investment.


Game board: usually just a matter of printing and sometimes putting multiple pieces together.

All of these printing, by the way, costs ink. I've skipped a lot of PnP projects because they are over-saturated with ink! There's a lot that can be done with just light shades of color. You can even design things to be grayscale, and then give the player the opportunity to print onto colored paper or use crayons/paint to customize it.

When I see an over-saturated ink project, and it is of high interest to me, then I would check to see if there's a POD (print on demand) service that is already making it. Like Artscow, or PnP Productions.


Lastly, tokens and cubes: These are almost zero effort, if all you ask for are the pieces. Cubes I can scrounge from other games, or buy from craft stores. Same with tokens...

Stickering those is a bit trickier. I've done it myself... but then again, those would be prototypes of games that I am very interested in. I've done half-inch stickers for 6-sided dice. (which actually work out to be 0.5 x 1.5 strips.. applying two to each die.) You can get 49 dice out of a full sheet, usually enough for most games.
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