Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Eclipse» Forums » Rules

Subject: Colony ships during bankruptcy rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This could have happened yesterday on the last turn, but I have avoided bringing up the topic.

So it's the upkeep phase.
- I have the whole Economy track empty (+28 money)
- The whole Influence track is also empty (-30 money)
- No Money saved.
- I do have spare Colony Ships and empty Money Planets in hexes I influence, but I cannot use them at the moment (because the Economy track is empty).

So I am going bankrupt. I void a hex containing a Money Planet, an influence disk is returned to me (-25 Money), an Economy cube goes back to my track (+24 Money). I am still bankrupt.

Question. Can I at this point use a Colony Ship to put the newly returned Population Cube from my Money track to another empty Planet I control?

I guess that the answer is "no" because Colony Ships can be used only at the very beginning of Upkeep and not once Bankruptcy begins.

[EDIT: spelling, clearer explanation]
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fernando Robert Yu
Philippines
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
flying_neko wrote:
This could have happened yesterday on the last turn, but I have avoided bringing up the topic.

So it's the upkeep phase.
- I have the whole Economy track empty (+28 money)
- The whole Influence track is also empty (-30 money)
- No Money saved.
- I do have spare Colony Ships and empty Money Planets in hexes I influence, but I cannot use them at the moment (because the Economy track is empty).

So I am going bankrupt. I void a hex containing a Money Planet, an influence disk is returned to me (-25 Money), an Economy cube goes back to my track (+24 Money). I am still bankrupt.

Question. Can I at this point use a Colony Ship to put the newly returned Population Cube from my Money track to another empty Planet I control?

I guess that the answer is "no" because Colony Ships can be used only at the very beginning of Upkeep and not once Bankruptcy begins.

[EDIT: spelling, clearer explanation]


I believe at this point your civilization collapses, and you are automatically out of the game, unless you use your trade ratio to convert excess science/materials to money to pay for your bankruptcy...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Ciechonski
Sweden
Lund
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
no. Colony ships are activated at the beginning of the Upkeep, before resolving the upkeep.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forrest & Ryan Driskel
United States
Longmont
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
freddieyu wrote:
I believe at this point your civilization collapses, and you are automatically out of the game, unless you use your trade ratio to convert excess science/materials to money to pay for your bankruptcy...


No, not yet. First, you can only use the colony ships BEFORE performing upkeep (as suggested in the OP's "I guess"). Secondly, the rules at this point are:

1.) Trade science / materials until you have enough money
OR
2.) Return discs from systems (and the cubes from the corresponding planets) until you CAN afford it
OR
3.) A combination of 1 & 2

Collapse only happens if you run out of discs to remove.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
freddieyu wrote:
I believe at this point your civilization collapses


With 10 Hexes and 10 Money Planets? I don't think so
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rafci80 wrote:
no. Colony ships are activated at the beginning of the Upkeep, before resolving the upkeep.


Ok, we agree then :-)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JPG
Canada
Sherwood Park
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

The money cube does not go back to your track, it goes to the graveyard, to be place back on the money track just prior to the start of the next turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Radosław Michalak
Poland
Bytom
flag msg tools
Gaming is for having fun. Fun requires clear rules.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Grusome99 wrote:

The money cube does not go back to your track, it goes to the graveyard, to be place back on the money track just prior to the start of the next turn.

Only cubes removed by cannons/neutron bombs go to graveyard.
Cubes removed by bankcruptcy go directly to tracks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Heiko Günther
Germany
Saarbrücken
Saarland
flag msg tools
designer
Coming soon: Peak Oil Spillover!
badge
I spent 100 GG so you can read this.
Avatar
Interesting nitpicking.

Technically, bankruptcy is not allowed to 'happen' in Eclipse. The moment you would go bankrupt, 'your empire collapses' and you are out of the game.

So. Technically, all actions you take to avoid bankruptcy (remove influence from systems, trade other stuff for money) happen at the start of the upkeep phase, before you collect income and pay civilization upkeep cost, before you 'perform upkeep', so to say.

So. Technically, I don't see why you wouldn't be allowed to do your trick, even if you would insist on the 'colony ships only at the start of he upkeep phase' stuff.

Since the rules state multiple times that you may use your colony ships at any time during your turn, it seems to me, the 'colony ships only at the start of he upkeep phase' stuff is there to simplify things and remind you of that possibility again, not to say you can't use them later in. Te same phase.

Thematically at least, it is not only feasible but sensible to give up cost intensive systems to better concentrate your working forces in income generating sectors.

So I would rule 'Yeah, go for it.'. But perhaps you want to ask this question in the official FAQ thread, to make sure you do the right thing. (Hehe)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Radosław Michalak
Poland
Bytom
flag msg tools
Gaming is for having fun. Fun requires clear rules.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lee elektrik wrote:
Since the rules state multiple times that you may use your colony ships at any time during your turn, it seems to me, the 'colony ships only at the start of he upkeep phase' stuff is there to simplify things and remind you of that possibility again, not to say you can't use them later in. Te same phase.

Upkeep is not "your turn". You have it only during action phase, but not later.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Heiko Günther
Germany
Saarbrücken
Saarland
flag msg tools
designer
Coming soon: Peak Oil Spillover!
badge
I spent 100 GG so you can read this.
Avatar
Radziol wrote:
Upkeep is not "your turn". You have it only during action phase, but not later.
Sorry for not being clearer. I didn't want to imply that upkeep is the same as a regular action.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lee elektrik wrote:
So I would rule 'Yeah, go for it.'. But perhaps you want to ask this question in the official FAQ thread, to make sure you do the right thing. (Hehe)


I agree with Radosław that using Colony Ships after cubes have been returned to the track during Bankruptcy is disallowed, because of how the rules define what "your turn" and "beginning of upkeep" are.

At the same time I agree with you that, in such an exceptional situation, it wouldn't be particularly game-breaking or against the spirit of the rules to houserule in favour of such a thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rhys Hopkins
United Kingdom
Pontypool
Torfaen
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would also agree that you can't use colony ships when you go 'bankrupt' as it would be too much of an advantage.

If you find youself in this position you just have to keep returning influence discs until the economy balances out, this can happen even if you continue losing money producing planets as the money track gains more money than influence discs take away passed the 21 mark (the next pair are +18 and -17). I really like this system as it means that you can't go bust, you just lose VPs until you can retake the systems.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walter McCormick
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pfahl wrote:
I really like this system as it means that you can't go bust, you just lose VPs until you can retake the systems.


You CAN go bust, but you need to push the upkeep track high enough that the number of discs away from equilibrium you are is greater than the number of systems you own. The smaller your empire, the easier it is to go completely bankrupt and be eliminated.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rhys Hopkins
United Kingdom
Pontypool
Torfaen
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SkywalterDBZ wrote:
Pfahl wrote:
I really like this system as it means that you can't go bust, you just lose VPs until you can retake the systems.


You CAN go bust, but you need to push the upkeep track high enough that the number of discs away from equilibrium you are is greater than the number of systems you own. The smaller your empire, the easier it is to go completely bankrupt and be eliminated.


I hadn't thought of that, haven't seen anyone come close in any of the games I've played. I imagine that you'd have to be in a really tight position for that to happen without you having control over the situation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.