Mr G
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I have purchased the various CoH boardgames over the last few years, plus extra maps, Zun Tsu and the PC game.

They mostly languished on the shelf due to the SLIGHTLY different rules sets from ATB1 to SOS then on to the PC. It just niggled me that I had to remember similar but different rules sets.

I pulled my self together recently and snapped out of it. With ATB2 on the way, I put in the effort to get to grips with it. Purchased ATB 2 and really enjoy it.

I also went back to try the PC game. Previously, I hadn't liked the 3D figures or terrain. I had wished for a 2D version, faithful to the boardgame. Holy cow - new boardgame maps were available!

So over the last few weeks I have been enjoying CoH as a face to face boardgame with friends, solo, via Zun Tsu and via the PC game solo and with new friends. It is a great system with strong support both on these boards and on The PC forums.

BUT, I read quite a few complaints about the PC game not working properly and in particular not working as per the boardgame. It got me wondering where the market is for the PC game. How many people play only PC, only board or both? Would the market for the PC game increase or decrease if it was a straight copy of the boardgame, in 2d, but with AI?

I don't actually want the funky graphics for the upcoming PC SOS. I'd prefer boardgame maps with chits and exact boardgame rules. One major caveat is the OPTION for persistent APs. Now that seems a choice worth keeping in. As an option.

From reading the boards, I don't think I'm alone in that view, but I wonder whether I am in a majority or a minority.

Bottom line - could Matrix make more money by offering a game much more like the boardgame, or is there a bigger market for the 3D variety?

I wonder what SOS PC game will look like!








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Jesse LeBreton
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fentum wrote:
Previously, I hadn't liked the 3D figures or terrain. I had wished for a 2D version, faithful to the boardgame...

I don't actually want the funky graphics for the upcoming PC SOS. I'd prefer boardgame maps with chits and exact boardgame rules...

From reading the boards, I don't think I'm alone in that view, but I wonder wether I am in a majority or a minority...


I think you are in the majority. However Matrix games and WCS incorrectly though we were the minority. Did you see the prototype iPad COH game that had a video hosted here? It's not hard to see from the comments posted praising that adaptation, that it was what we really wanted to see in a computer version of COH.

WCS in my opinion, wasted much development time and money on fancy 3D terrain and units that, in the end, turned out looking only so so. Hardly anyone uses them now. Once the 2D game boards were patched in most switched. This development time would have been better put to better firing and dice roll animation for instance. Zuntzu has pretty good dice roll animation, and I had pointed that out to them back when I was in the beta. Sadly, they never felt like putting some nice dice animation in.

With recent changes, the game is getting closer to what we all wanted in the first place. Had they made the correct judgement calls during alpha we would already be there. That is, playing something like the iPad version. At least some day we may get the game we had always wanted.
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Darin Helgeson
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All I want is the PC game to have the option to be 100% faithful to the boardgame. Anything else that is added that is also optional is fine with me.
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Mr G
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Lebatron wrote:
fentum wrote:
Previously, I hadn't liked the 3D figures or terrain. I had wished for a 2D version, faithful to the boardgame...

I don't actually want the funky graphics for the upcoming PC SOS. I'd prefer boardgame maps with chits and exact boardgame rules...

From reading the boards, I don't think I'm alone in that view, but I wonder wether I am in a majority or a minority...


I think you are in the majority. However Matrix games and WCS incorrectly though we were the minority. Did you see the prototype iPad COH game that had a video hosted here? It's not hard to see from the comments posted praising that adaptation, that it was what we really wanted to see in a computer version of COH.

WCS in my opinion, wasted much development time and money on fancy 3D terrain and units that, in the end, turned out looking only so so. Hardly anyone uses them now. Once the 2D game boards were patched in most switched. This development time would have been better put to better firing and dice roll animation for instance. Zuntzu has pretty good dice roll animation, and I had pointed that out to them back when I was in the beta. Sadly, they never felt like putting some nice dice animation in.

With recent changes, the game is getting closer to what we all wanted in the first place. Had they made the correct judgement calls during alpha we would already be there. That is, playing something like the iPad version. At least some day we may get the game we had always wanted.


That is so funny. It's exactly how I feel. I love the Zun Tsu dice rolls. I love the Zun Tsu maps. Basic high quality 2D is great. But there's no AI.

That prototype iPad execution looks fantastic and I already offered all my money for it in that thread a while back...

BUT... how do you KNOW that the majority want that? We might be deluding ourselves that we are in the majority when in fact the forums contain the vocal minority.

Matrix need to make money, so I applaud their efforts whatever they do. I hope that maybe they can make a bit more money by offering what the majority want, if indeed we are in the majority.




 
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Ty Snouffer
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I like the PC game and its efforts to be faithful to the boardgame version. I also have trouble seening how for all the PC games out there this would be attractive to folks unfamiliar with the boardgame version first.

The PC game has its own LOS system which is hard to follow if one is used to the baordgame.

There are also a number of ongoing or recurring bugs that are turning me off.

What would I like to see in the game:

1) Consistent boardgame-style rules keeping the Persistent AP option (which speeds play but keeps most, not all, of the strategy)
2) A much more robust map and unit editor with an easy system to share firefights. Kind of a sandbox mode. I want to make a Market Garden set of firefights. The current editor is far too complext for mere mortals.
3) Much more flexibility. I can't think of another word for it. What I mean is, when placing reinformencements one can't check LOS. Not being locked out of checking things while it is the other player's turn in MP. THese are just examples, but there are just some pretty poor limitations that are headscrathcers.

For the $30 or $40 I orginally paid, it is a fine value. As it is though, it falls short of expectations and I doubt I will buy the announced/strongly hinted SoS version. The online community is lacking too. Be prepared to do a lot of work to line up MP players.

Love CoH, but hope(d) for so much more from the PC game.
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Jesse LeBreton
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fentum wrote:
BUT... how do you KNOW that the majority want that? We might be deluding ourselves that we are in the majority when in fact the forums contain the vocal minority.


That's simple to answer. A quick side by side comparison of how smooth and well executed the iPad version looks and plays compared to WCS's effort and all questions simply vanish. If both versions were for sale on the PC which version would you buy?

The closer WCS gets to making their game look and play like the iPad version, the happier I think we will be with it. The early choices they made were wrong and now they are correcting that. Sadly, it is costing them time and money to do so. However, this will make SoS PC much much better.
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Mr G
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Absolutely agree with Ty and Jessie.

Would be better to start again and do a CRACKING straight port of boardgame to PC and iPad, with AI, consistent LOS, persistent AP option and sandbox.

 
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Darin Helgeson
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I bought this PC version because I like the game and thought it would be fun. I loaded it on our PC (which isn't used for much else in our house) and after flailing though download after download I finally got it to work. I found the interface very clunky and after a few plays it has been unused. Just doesn't do it for me. I will never buy another boardgame adaptation for the PC. I understand using the PC for a graphics intensive video game but why anyone uses the PC platform for adapting boardgames is something I can't figure out. If someone 10 years ago would have set out to design a device that had no other purpose except to play boardgames adapted to the computer they could not have developed something better than the tablet computers (iPad/Galaxy/whatever) that are currently available. I don't want to sit in my office staring at the PC when playing a game. I want to feel like I'm sitting at the table moving the pieces and playing a boardgame but not have to leave it on the table when I run out of time, have a scenario set up instantly, have a competent AI, and be able to play via the internet without needing a comp sci degree. I have a few boardgames on my iPad and absolutely love them. Here's hoping they start over and develop it for the iPad like they should have from the start. JMHO.
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Ty Snouffer
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Lebatron wrote:
That's simple to answer. A quick side by side comparison of how smooth and well executed the iPad version looks and plays compared to WCS's effort and all questions simply vanish.
The iPad demo is all potential. I hadn't watched the video and did so again upon joining this thread. It is much more impressive than I remembered. A great two player version it seems.

Other than that, putting faith into it seems to be illusionary. It isn't real.

One question that hasn't vanished is "Are there any real discussions about developing this?" I suspect (and to be fair emphasize suspect) the answer is "no" and the current agreement with Matrix would prevent that answer from changing.

Quote:
If both versions were for sale on the PC which version would you buy?
They're not both on sale and there has been no indication that the iPad version will be released. So the iPad demo has the advantage of being idealized in the minds of hypothetical buyers. Having said that and been kind of a wet blanket, if there were AI and MP, could be played on a desktop too, and the large maps played well, the answer would be the fake/demo/fan/non-existent/non-purchaseable version.
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Jesse LeBreton
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Microsoft has been working on 'Surface' for several years to bring that exact experience to computers. There is a demo of a D&D game being played on a virtual table top somewhere on Youtube. You should search for it.

"I will never buy another boardgame adaptation for the PC."

I can understand the sour grapes, but there have been many good PC translations. The question whether a translation turns out good or not is entirely based on the developer in question. Do they make good judgement calls? If not they probably ruin the experience for you.
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Mr G
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Great Battles of History

Now THAT was a cracking series of PC games, very faithful to the GMT wargame series. GB of Alexander, SPQR, etc
 
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Ty Snouffer
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fentum wrote:

Great Battles of History

Now THAT was a cracking series of PC games, very faithful to the GMT wargame series. GB of Alexander, SPQR, etc


How made the electronic format and on what platforms? I'm not familiar with it.
 
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Mr G
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These were PC games made by Interactive Magic around twenty years ago. They were complete ports of the GMT GBoH series to computer. Hex map, turn based, isometric sprites. Brilliant. Looked a bit like the current Fields of Glory.

But I don't want to hijack this thread about CoH ...whistle
 
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A L D A R O N
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This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spgOZHY90bs
 
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Keegan Fink
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I would sell a kidney to have a working iPad version of COH, as featured in the proof-of-concept teaser video. That is all.
 
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Lewis Karl
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I must be in the minority, at least of the folks on this thread. I have little use for a PC game that is just a 2D electronic version of the boardgame. I would rather play the boardgame. I would prefer Matrix's time and effort be spent on 3D realism etc. to produce a game not unlike the combat simulation games that used to be great, such as Combat Mission 1, 2 or 3.
 
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Jesse LeBreton
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I think you are mistaking us for a bunch of guys that don't appreciate great graphics in games. The problem is Matrix Games, and WCS in particular, don't have the expertise to pull off decent 3D realism. To me the photo realistic 2D maps and counters of the board game do in fact satisfy my need for great graphics more than the so so 3D forests, houses and units of the PC game. Now that the PC game offers the 2D maps now, the game in fact got a major graphic boost IMO.
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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I just purchased the PC game, and after 6 playes I must say that I am very disappointed with it.

The recent patch has still not brought the counter stats up to date with COH:AtB 2nd ed (specifically red frontal defense for guns).

The map graphichs are terrible compared with the boardgame (I am using the 2D counter look and not the "naturalistic" counter look)

The interface seems very slow to react and needlessly complex to use.

The AI did not impress me at all.

The rules for reinforcements are either different in the PC game (unit MUST enter at the beginning of their round of entry) or I have been playing CoH wrong since 2008.
 
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