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Subject: To sleeve or not to sleeve.. Cheap cards force it? rss

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Steve De George
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I just got the game. The cards themselves seem VERY cheaply produced. They are very thin, don't use the matted-fabric (I don't know the official term) style of card like you see with bicycle.

Does this force you to get sleeves? If so, what sleeve do you like the best? I almost want to get sleeves before I even play the game.. Ouch.
 
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Steven Tu
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Thraka wrote:
I just got the game. The cards themselves seem VERY cheaply produced. They are very thin, don't use the matted-fabric (I don't know the official term) style of card like you see with bicycle.

Does this force you to get sleeves? If so, what sleeve do you like the best? I almost want to get sleeves before I even play the game.. Ouch.


Are magic cards better quality? I sleeve them, but not because they're not "as good as" bicycle cards. I want them to last, even bicycle cards wear down if unsleeved.

I think thunderstone cards are the type you're talking about. The ones we have are unsleeved and we can tell the core cards from the expansions. Regret.
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Steve De George
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I don't know, I've never touched a magic card. :)

I've generally found three types of cards. The matted cards, the glossy\flimsy cards (killer bunnies), and these flimsy cards. Generally I rank card type based on accidental bending. You can bend matted cards pretty far before a crease will appear. But these cards seem like a crease will appear very very easily.

But I've been thinking about sleeving cards on games I play a lot anyhow because they just wear out eventually. :)

But even with a sleeve, will bending still happen? With cheaper cards it seems more likely.
 
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Steven Tu
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I think I wouldn't bend cards whether they're "matte" or not. What is it that you do that would so likely cause accidental bending? I think it would be best if you just tried to shuffle more carefully, I daresay.
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Double Plus Undead
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I think that using playing-card quality cardboard for this game would drive the price up enough to make it prohibitive for people to play it. I actually don't see that quality of cardboard used in games very often.

As long as you're not terribly clumsy, and can shuffle reasonably well, you shouldn't have any problems with bending. A lot of people like to sleeve their cards anyway, though.
 
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Matthew Trent
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Per the turney rules sleeves are required at official events. Don't be a scrub.
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Jessey
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I sleeve because small wear will make it so that in less than a year you will be able to tell core cards from non-core cards just by looking at them. In a game with random draw from a deck that's not so good, so I sleeve (because I expect to play a lot, and thus shuffle a lot).

I had this happen with my first copy of Dominion, you knew if a Money or VP card was in your opponents hands / top of your deck based on the relative wear between the cards.
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Steve De George
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Well you know how it is.. Drop a card here or there.. Lay something around on the table, sometimes bad shuffling, etc. It just happens :) I wouldn't ever play in a tourny so I'm not used to the "sleeve or leave" practice. (Did I coin a new phrase?) ;) I was just going to buy the FF sleeve recommended on the box, should I buy 'em somewhere else?

Tuism wrote:
I think I wouldn't bend cards whether they're "matte" or not. What is it that you do that would so likely cause accidental bending? I think it would be best if you just tried to shuffle more carefully, I daresay. :)


Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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I don't sleeve my cards, because I prefer the feel of cardboard over plastic, and I'm not worried about resale value. Once they start to show noticeable wear, I'll bite the bullet and sleeve them, but that hasn't happened yet. (I've had the game for about 6 months now, and I play fairly frequently.)
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Samuel Hinz
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I saw someones set last week. and every card had super wear. i asked how many game he had played. it was like 11. i'd played more than 11 before i sleeved and i've got no marks.

very weird.

but yes i would sleeve. 100 sleeves is enough for you corp and runner decks you're playing with.
 
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Nigel McNaughton
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I thought the quality was decent, but I sleeved anyway, I tend to do for any game where the cards are shuffled regularly.
 
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abodi wrote:
I saw someones set last week. and every card had super wear. i asked how many game he had played. it was like 11. i'd played more than 11 before i sleeved and i've got no marks.


Some people are all thumbs when it comes to shuffling. Learning how to shuffle is not that hard. All you have to do is get a pack of playing cards (or some other cards you don't care about damaging), and practice, practice, practice.

I think that I've gotten reasonably good at it. It's not a perfect shuffle every time, but I don't bend the cards anymore.
 
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Jake Courtney
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I double sleeve.
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Aaron s
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pirate_chef wrote:
abodi wrote:
I saw someones set last week. and every card had super wear. i asked how many game he had played. it was like 11. i'd played more than 11 before i sleeved and i've got no marks.


Some people are all thumbs when it comes to shuffling. Learning how to shuffle is not that hard. All you have to do is get a pack of playing cards (or some other cards you don't care about damaging), and practice, practice, practice.

I think that I've gotten reasonably good at it. It's not a perfect shuffle every time, but I don't bend the cards anymore.


I also have no visible wear no my cards and I've had them since September.

You don't even need to shuffle the normal way (although the second part of the shuffle will start to bend them no matter what), you just take your deck, make 8 piles or so, alternating which cards go in which pile in order, then put them back together.
 
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Bobby Picker
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I typically only sleeve my play decks. However, I have a "playable" deck for all Runners and Corps. I would at least get 100 sleeves which you could protect a Runner and a Corp deck. Who knows in 10-15 years, the 1st print run of A:NR may be as valuable as the Alpha, Beta Magic cards.... Shuffle up and jack in!
 
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Ian Toltz
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Thraka wrote:
I just got the game. The cards themselves seem VERY cheaply produced. They are very thin, don't use the matted-fabric (I don't know the official term) style of card like you see with bicycle.


That's called a linen finish. My understanding is that it's just a pattern stamped onto the the face.
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TK Number 3
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I sleeved with the cheap Ultra Pro sleeves. They are called penny sleeves as you get 100 for the dollar. With the game being heavily influence by bluffing I think not having marks on the cards is important. Also I found it much easier to peek at ice when the cards were sleeved, you just slide another card under it to flip it up towards you.

You don't have to sleeve, but considering you could get by with 100 sleeves for $1, it can't hurt.
 
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Maxime Noel
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Asmor wrote:
Thraka wrote:
I just got the game. The cards themselves seem VERY cheaply produced. They are very thin, don't use the matted-fabric (I don't know the official term) style of card like you see with bicycle.


That's called a linen finish. My understanding is that it's just a pattern stamped onto the the face.


Actully a real linen laced paper contain linen fiber to prevent tearing, but sadly most of the time we only get a linen finish wich dosn'nt do much, and none of the two offer any protection from wear.
 
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Josh Hunsaker
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Thraka wrote:
If so, what sleeve do you like the best?

Although there are a lot of complaints about Mayday Games quality, I have always been really happy with their sleeves for my Dominion cards. They give a very snug fit, which I like. However, the A:NR cards are a different size than Dominion, and they definitely do not fit snugly. They cards seem to be "bridge sized" rather than "poker sized" so it is not a good fit. I tried putting a poker card in the mayday sleeve, and the fit was snug how I like it. The difference is about 6 mm, which to me seems like a lot.

Can anyone comment on how the FFG supply sleeves fit vs the mayday sleeves? I uploaded an image of how my card fits in the mayday sleeve, but it is pending approval.

Thraka wrote:
I almost want to get sleeves before I even play the game.. Ouch.


I did too. I ordered my sleeves from mayday games the same day I ordered A:NR. I got the game a few days later, and the sleeves four weeks later.
 
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Jack Murphy
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I sleeved all of my cards immediately.
For me there was simply no reason not to.

I bought this item, for the price you cant go wrong.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trading-Card-Sleeves-Protectors-Poke...

Another nice thing about these sleeves is that shuffling is easy - you can split the deck and slide on half straight into the other as the edges 'mesh' together and splits all the cards up well.


The 500 pack is good though considering by the end of the genesis cycle there will be over 600 cards in my collection, I'll be buying more!


EDIT: I take it back - I got a really bad batch from them which were slightly blue tinted and ALL (in 5 packs of 100) are cut massively too tall.

New option in UltraPro Profit and they are pretty nice.
 
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Andy Mills
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I really like the FFG sleeves. Some people dislike how much longer the sleeve is than the card, but it's about 3mm and I think that is a reasonable amount. The width is pretty snug (in a good way)

I don't believe I've ever had a single sleeve be defective out of the package, or split later. The quality control on FFG's sleeves seems to be top-notch.
 
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Thomas R
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Thraka wrote:
Well you know how it is.. Drop a card here or there.. Lay something around on the table, sometimes bad shuffling, etc. It just happens I wouldn't ever play in a tourny so I'm not used to the "sleeve or leave" practice. (Did I coin a new phrase?) I was just going to buy the FF sleeve recommended on the box, should I buy 'em somewhere else?

Tuism wrote:
I think I wouldn't bend cards whether they're "matte" or not. What is it that you do that would so likely cause accidental bending? I think it would be best if you just tried to shuffle more carefully, I daresay.


Thanks everyone for your thoughts.


I think I played about fifty games unsleeved before a sloppy shuffle nicked the corner of one of my cards ever so slightly. Other than that, there's no visible wear on them yet. So, basically: yes, you will wear the cards eventually, but if you're just playing a few casual games every couple of weeks, you're probably fine.

As for sleeves, I use the FFG sleeves myself. One pack works for one deck, which is convenient, though I suspect you could get just about the cheapest sleeves you can find and those would work fine (since the cardboard itself is sturdier than it seems at first), and what you really want to protect is the corners/edges.
 
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Aaron s
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TKNumber3 wrote:
I sleeved with the cheap Ultra Pro sleeves. They are called penny sleeves as you get 100 for the dollar. With the game being heavily influence by bluffing I think not having marks on the cards is important. Also I found it much easier to peek at ice when the cards were sleeved, you just slide another card under it to flip it up towards you.

You don't have to sleeve, but considering you could get by with 100 sleeves for $1, it can't hurt.


Where are you buying these? I see 100 for $6 on Cool Stuff Inc and Amazon.
 
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David Boeren
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pirate_chef wrote:
abodi wrote:
I saw someones set last week. and every card had super wear. i asked how many game he had played. it was like 11. i'd played more than 11 before i sleeved and i've got no marks.


Some people are all thumbs when it comes to shuffling. Learning how to shuffle is not that hard. All you have to do is get a pack of playing cards (or some other cards you don't care about damaging), and practice, practice, practice.


+1, I see some people out there with horrifyingly bad shuffling techniques, it's no wonder they have to buy sleeves.

I'd say don't use Mayday (bad reputation) or penny sleeves (cheap for a reason, and typically poor fit). Beyond that, any brand is probably fine.

Personally, I refuse to use any brand that comes 50 to a pack because as soon as you split ONE sleeve, which will eventually happen, they're unusable for some games. For Netrunner, you have a little extra room but not that much. So, I typically buy Player's Choice which comes 60 to a set. I've seen brands that have 80, but then that's generally overkill
 
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TK Number 3
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Syphus wrote:
TKNumber3 wrote:
I sleeved with the cheap Ultra Pro sleeves. They are called penny sleeves as you get 100 for the dollar. With the game being heavily influence by bluffing I think not having marks on the cards is important. Also I found it much easier to peek at ice when the cards were sleeved, you just slide another card under it to flip it up towards you.

You don't have to sleeve, but considering you could get by with 100 sleeves for $1, it can't hurt.


Where are you buying these? I see 100 for $6 on Cool Stuff Inc and Amazon.


My local stores all carry them. They are very thin which I like, but are not the snuggest fit. I had two packs of the ffg sleeves which are much better, but at 7x the cost I moved away from them when I decided to sleeve all my cards, not just the current decks I was using. Search "penny sleeves" on coolstuffinc and you will find them.
 
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