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Fury of Dracula (second edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hide + matured New Vampire = ??? rss

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Luca Iennaco
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Dracula put a "New Vampire" on his location 6 turns ago; now (his Movement Phase) that location drops off the Track (it is returned to the deck while the encounter is kept "ready to be matured" near the board) and he plays "Hide". During his Action Phase he plays an encounter on the "Hide" card and finally the New Vampire is matured, clearing the Track (down to one card). Since the rules for Hide say: "If the location where Dracula played this card drops off the Track, this card is revealed and drops off with it." (end of page 21) no cards AT ALL are left on the Track. Where is Dracula now?
(Lost in Time and Space? )
 
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Simone
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
Dracula put a "New Vampire" on his location 6 turns ago; now (his Movement Phase) that location drops off the Track (it is returned to the deck while the encounter is kept "ready to be matured" near the board) and he plays "Hide". During his Action Phase he plays an encounter on the "Hide" card and finally the New Vampire is matured, clearing the Track (down to one card). Since the rules for Hide say: "If the location where Dracula played this card drops off the Track, this card is revealed and drops off with it." (end of page 21) no cards AT ALL are left on the Track. Where is Dracula now?
(Lost in Time and Space? )


Uh, nice question!
Well, I see three solutions.
1. Dracula clears his Trail down to two (Hide + actual Location). This tells Hunters he is using Hide Power, but they can't know where.
2. Dracula clears his Trail down to one (only Hide). Though Dracula has dropped off his actual Location, he is there (cheating possibility). If a Hunter reach that Location during next turn, Dracula must reveal Hide Card and Hunter face the encounter on it.
3. Dracula clears whole Trail. Again, this tells Hunters he is using Hide Power. He's supposed to be in his last Location even if he has dropped it off (cheating possibility).

This problem is tough, I hope playtesters or K.Wilson will answer.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Zem. wrote:
1. Dracula clears his Trail down to two (Hide + actual Location). This tells Hunters he is using Hide Power, but they can't know where.


It just takes a "Newspaper report" (using a point of Resolve) to discover the Location. Besides, it keeps both encounters and reveals that "Hide" was used.

Zem. wrote:
2. Dracula clears his Trail down to one (only Hide). Though Dracula has dropped off his actual Location, he is there (cheating possibility). If a Hunter reach that Location during next turn, Dracula must reveal Hide Card and Hunter face the encounter on it.


This is the WORST possible solution: Dracula could put an encounter on the "Hide" card and be sure that it'll NEVER be met (so a "New Vampire" would be 2 sure points 6 turns later) if he isn't discovered in this turn. Besides, it'll be quite odd (some turns later) for the Hunters to use a "Newspaper Report" and see... the "Hide" card alone as the oldest of the track?!?

Zem. wrote:
3. Dracula clears whole Trail. Again, this tells Hunters he is using Hide Power. He's supposed to be in his last Location even if he has dropped it off (cheating possibility).


This is basically what we did: Dracula replaced the "Hide" with the card preceding it on the Track (i.e. the location where he hid). Since that location was still face down, it was just a minor hassle (even if it still revealed some extra info - that Dracula hid - to the Hunters); but what if that card had been revealed? (for example: because a Hunter moved there the turn earlier, but Dracula repelled him in an adjacent city with "Wild Horses" and now wants to "bluff" a movement playing "Hide"...).
 
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Simone
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Luke the Flaming wrote:

Zem. wrote:
2. Dracula clears his Trail down to one (only Hide). Though Dracula has dropped off his actual Location, he is there (cheating possibility). If a Hunter reach that Location during next turn, Dracula must reveal Hide Card and Hunter face the encounter on it.


This is the WORST possible solution: Dracula could put an encounter on the "Hide" card and be sure that it'll NEVER be met (so a "New Vampire" would be 2 sure points 6 turns later) if he isn't discovered in this turn. Besides, it'll be quite odd (some turns later) for the Hunters to use a "Newspaper Report" and see... the "Hide" card alone as the oldest of the track?!?

No, I meant that Dracula should link (but only in his mind, that's very high cheating risk) Hide card still on Trail to the previous Location (named 'A', now back in the Location Deck). If Hunters reach Location A, Dracula must reveal Hide card and put the Location A card on it. This means that Dracula cannot move to Location A until Hide is dropped off.

Luke the Flaming wrote:
[About n.3] ...but what if that card had been revealed?

I think Hunters have just found Dracula.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Zem. wrote:
I think Hunters have just found Dracula.


Yes, but since they found him because a "New Vampire" is matured... there's something wrong! In fact, if Dracula moved rather than opting for "Hide", his location would still be unknown. This essentially removes the option to "Hide" and makes the game poorer... as a consequence of a VICTORIOUS action (maturing a "New Vampire") by Dracula!

I'd like to get an official answer from FFG.
 
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Simone
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
Yes, but since they found him because a "New Vampire" is matured... there's something wrong! In fact, if Dracula moved rather than opting for "Hide", his location would still be unknown. This essentially removes the option to "Hide" and makes the game poorer... as a consequence of a VICTORIOUS action (maturing a "New Vampire") by Dracula!

But this happens only if Dracula plays Hide six turns after 'New Vampire'. He simply shouldn't do that.
Anyway, I understand the contradiction in this solution.

Luke the Flaming wrote:

I'd like to get an official answer from FFG.

FFG site has a module for rules questions.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Zem. wrote:
FFG site has a module for rules questions.


I know. I'm waiting for their answer (their website says that 7-14 days are needed, so I tried to ask it here as well to see if a faster response was possible and if someone else had any idea on the subject).
When they'll reply, I'll report here their answer. meeple
 
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Kevin Wilson
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
Dracula put a "New Vampire" on his location 6 turns ago; now (his Movement Phase) that location drops off the Track (it is returned to the deck while the encounter is kept "ready to be matured" near the board) and he plays "Hide". During his Action Phase he plays an encounter on the "Hide" card and finally the New Vampire is matured, clearing the Track (down to one card). Since the rules for Hide say: "If the location where Dracula played this card drops off the Track, this card is revealed and drops off with it." (end of page 21) no cards AT ALL are left on the Track. Where is Dracula now?
(Lost in Time and Space? )


In this special case, reveal the hide card and have it drop off instead of the location card where Dracula hid. That location card remains exactly as it was previously (revealed or not, with encounters or not) and is the sole remaining location card in Dracula's trail.

True, this means that Dracula cannot effectively hide the same turn that he matures a new vampire, but he can see this situation coming, and if it's vital that his hide card not be revealed, he can choose not to mature the new vampire, as always. What can I say? It's a hard unlife.

-Kevin Wilson
Fantasy Flight Games
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Luca Iennaco
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Thank you a lot for your answer! thumbsup
 
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Tony Chen
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KevinW wrote:
Luke the Flaming wrote:
Dracula put a "New Vampire" on his location 6 turns ago; now (his Movement Phase) that location drops off the Track (it is returned to the deck while the encounter is kept "ready to be matured" near the board) and he plays "Hide". During his Action Phase he plays an encounter on the "Hide" card and finally the New Vampire is matured, clearing the Track (down to one card). Since the rules for Hide say: "If the location where Dracula played this card drops off the Track, this card is revealed and drops off with it." (end of page 21) no cards AT ALL are left on the Track. Where is Dracula now?
(Lost in Time and Space? )


In this special case, reveal the hide card and have it drop off instead of the location card where Dracula hid. That location card remains exactly as it was previously (revealed or not, with encounters or not) and is the sole remaining location card in Dracula's trail.

True, this means that Dracula cannot effectively hide the same turn that he matures a new vampire, but he can see this situation coming, and if it's vital that his hide card not be revealed, he can choose not to mature the new vampire, as always. What can I say? It's a hard unlife.

-Kevin Wilson
Fantasy Flight Games
Is that how a would-be single Dark Call or Feed card on the trail is resolved as well?
 
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H-B-G
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drunkenKOALA wrote:
KevinW wrote:
Luke the Flaming wrote:
Dracula put a "New Vampire" on his location 6 turns ago; now (his Movement Phase) that location drops off the Track (it is returned to the deck while the encounter is kept "ready to be matured" near the board) and he plays "Hide". During his Action Phase he plays an encounter on the "Hide" card and finally the New Vampire is matured, clearing the Track (down to one card). Since the rules for Hide say: "If the location where Dracula played this card drops off the Track, this card is revealed and drops off with it." (end of page 21) no cards AT ALL are left on the Track. Where is Dracula now?
(Lost in Time and Space? )


In this special case, reveal the hide card and have it drop off instead of the location card where Dracula hid. That location card remains exactly as it was previously (revealed or not, with encounters or not) and is the sole remaining location card in Dracula's trail.

True, this means that Dracula cannot effectively hide the same turn that he matures a new vampire, but he can see this situation coming, and if it's vital that his hide card not be revealed, he can choose not to mature the new vampire, as always. What can I say? It's a hard unlife.

-Kevin Wilson
Fantasy Flight Games
Is that how a would-be single Dark Call or Feed card on the trail is resolved as well?


Yes it is, this very situation appears in the FAQ, with this added

FAQ wrote:
Similar situations can also arise with some of Dracula’s
other Powers and with other encounters that clear
Dracula’s Trail. In these situations the rule is: If clearing
Dracula’s Trail would cause Dracula’s current location
to be discarded, do not discard that location, and discard
the next-oldest Power card instead.
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Mariusz Kosecki
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Hello,

I wanted to dig out this old thread instead of creating a new one.
Consider the situation below.

Dracula's trail is as follows (the oldest first):
1) Szeged [NV]
2) Budapest [?]
3) Klausenburg [?]
4) Galaz [?]
5) Castle Dracula []
6) Feed []
new) Hide []
Szeged with NV drops off and matures - according to the FAQ, only Castle Dracula remains on the trail and Hide + Feed are RETURNED to player's hand.
If the sixth step above happened at Twilight and after playing Hide, the clock is now at Small Hours then Dracula would be able to play his Feed card again. Afterwards use Hide!

If you get my idea of using Feed and Hide to end his turn in Castle Dracula which leads to him gaining 2 health then you can easily notice that 12 health can be regained within 5 turns (of course Hunters now about D's location all the time)...

I understand this is rather cheating and abusing a gap in the rules and should be avoided directly by Dracula player but is it really necessary to give Dracula's his cards back instead of blocking them somehow, Kevin?

For me, Dracula can be even penalized for using Hide when being aware that his NV will mature, so I would just switch his current location card with Hide card + discard all the encounters on the trail - thanks to that, his Feed and Hide would be back to him after regular 6 turns instead of an immediate return.

I know that according to regular moves, one would achieve similar situation:
1) Szeged [NV]
2) Budapest [?]
3) Klausenburg [?]
4) Castle Dracula []
5) Hide []
6) Feed []
new) Galaz [?]
and after clearing the trail, repeat the combo 4-6. However this time Dracula gains 14health points in 7 turns (instead of abusing 12/5).

I just wanted to point that out and hear your opinions. Since for the rule of clearing the trail with Hide card I would go with the official FAQ statement that "Dracula player should prevent these types of situations coming, and either prevent them or choose not to mature the relevant encounter".
 
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