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Subject: Whoa - balance problem? rss

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Mike Giro
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Er I had to go back and read the rule again, a player can play as many cards from their hand on their turn as they want???

Sheriff opening hand - 1 volcanic, 4 bangs.

Sheriff plays volcanic, fires 4 bangs at player to their right, player to their right is out of game before it has even started?

Is this right?
 
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Chris Talbot
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That's correct. But the player to the right could play miss cards to avoid getting hit or a beer card to save himself right when he loses his last life. However, the sheriff opening fire blindly like that could lead to the sheriff's own demise. If the sheriff succeeds in killing that player and that player is a deputy, the sheriff has to discard all his cards, which will allow for outlaws and renegades to take advantage of the fact that the sheriff can't have any miss or beer cards until his next turn.

Chris
 
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Giant Robot
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giroml wrote:
Er I had to go back and read the rule again, a player can play as many cards from their hand on their turn as they want???

Sheriff opening hand - 1 volcanic, 4 bangs.

Sheriff plays volcanic, fires 4 bangs at player to their right, player to their right is out of game before it has even started?

Is this right?


Well, yes. But now you have a totally defenseless Sherrif.
 
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Mike Giro
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Game was 4 player, sheriff was player who killed outlaw on first turn. He had to kill off all of us to win anyway. Which he did, quite handily. Probably because the Renegade then focused on me knowing I was the other Outlaw. I'm sure this plays much better with Deputies involved.
 
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giroml wrote:
I'm sure this plays much better with Deputies involved.

indeed.
it's best played with 6 or 7 players. (i never had the chance to play with 8 players = second renegade)
 
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David G.
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giroml wrote:
Game was 4 player, sheriff was player who killed outlaw on first turn. He had to kill off all of us to win anyway. Which he did, quite handily. Probably because the Renegade then focused on me knowing I was the other Outlaw. I'm sure this plays much better with Deputies involved.


I play a lot of Bang! with my kids, and the situation you've described is rare. There aren't that many Volcanics in the deck, and the chance of starting with 4 Bangs is pretty slim also. And, as someone has already stated, a Sheriff firing blindly at an opponent isn't a wise idea, in that if he killed off the Renegade he now faces the Outlaws alone, as opposed to having the Renegade in a "loose confederation".

I don't know the card counts, and I'm exagerating my point, but it's like saying Poker is unbalanced because you could be dealt a royal flush.
 
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David G.
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giroml wrote:
...because the Renegade then focused on me knowing I was the other Outlaw. I'm sure this plays much better with Deputies involved.


It was also foolish of the Renegade to focus solely on you. At this point he should have more cleverly chosen his strategy. He really wanted to take potshots at both of you, because a healthy Sheriff after both Outlaws are dead is not a good situation for the Renegade to be in. One-on-one a Renegade is in a disadvantage: he has one less life point, and can be put in jail.

Of course, the Renegade does want to be the one that kills the Outlaw, because he gets three cards. So, if you were weak when it was the Renegade's turn, it may have been a good strategy.
 
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Christian Monterroso
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Player elimination is one of the things that keeps Bang! from rising to the top of my 'played' list. We have had multiple games where a player doesn't get a turn.

Of course, the game is short enough that we just start it up again soon. And, with "High Noon", there is always the time when the dead players will come back as ghosts.
 
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ccmonter wrote:
with "High Noon", there is always the time when the dead players will come back as ghosts

and with "a fistful of cards" there's the card "apparent death" too, where the first dead player comes back with 2 lifepoints & 2 cards.
 
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Seth Jaffee
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I've played some Bamg! - in fact, I played it for about 6 hours not too long ago. We had a lot of discssion, and we all (all 7 of us) pretty much agreed that it's nearly impossible to win as he Renegade. We feel a more reasonable victory condition for the Renegade is to have to kill the Outlaws and the Sheriff, not the Deputies. This is ok thematically as well - if the Renegade kills the Sheriff and becomes the new Law in town, the subserviant deputies start taking orders from him.

I haven't ever played Bang! with fewer than 7 players, and I don't think I'd want to. I expect the proposed victory conditions would be not-so-good with fewer players, but the whole game seems not-so-good with fewer players anyway.

- Seth
 
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sedjtroll wrote:
7 players

a game with 4 or 5 players can relatively easy be won by the renegade.

with 6, 7 or 8 players i think the renegade has to drastically change his strategy!
i think he must try to pose as a deputy as long as possible, while at the same time try to kill the deputies (and the second renegade with 8 players), provided that the outlaws don't gain the upper hand.

maybe you should also try to play with the official tournament rules[1].
the renegade is rewarded the most points for a victory, and even if he loses & is still alive, he gains points.

[1]http://www.davincigames.com/page_eng.cfm?sez=01&gioco=bang!&...
 
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Brent Ross
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We find that by not allowing Jail to be played when the game is down to two players that the Renegade becomes much more viable since the Sheriff will always be one of the two remaining players and is immune to it. The Sheriff already gets enough of an advantage at that point simply because he typically gets a bit of a break to heal and prepare after the Outlaws are dead and the Deputies and Renegade are fighting it out.
 
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John Burt
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bonz wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
7 players

a game with 4 or 5 players can relatively easy be won by the renegade.


Played Bang! for the first time this weekend, and we played 5 games. The only time the Sherriff did not win was when we got to more then 5 players.
 
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john m
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Played for the first time tonight, so I really have no idea about much. It appears that either the Sheriff is very powerful or everyone must gang up on the Sheriff. The Sheriff won the game. I think everyone was just randomly firing bang cards trying to eliminate whoever but with no strategy (we all are learning and with no book cards). At least I got my wife to play.
 
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Raman Ohri
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sedjtroll wrote:
I've played some Bamg! - in fact, I played it for about 6 hours not too long ago. We had a lot of discssion, and we all (all 7 of us) pretty much agreed that it's nearly impossible to win as he Renegade. We feel a more reasonable victory condition for the Renegade is to have to kill the Outlaws and the Sheriff, not the Deputies. This is ok thematically as well - if the Renegade kills the Sheriff and becomes the new Law in town, the subserviant deputies start taking orders from him.


Bang was in regular rotation with my office lunch crowd for quite a long time. I'd conservatively estimate we played a couple hundred games between lunch and assorted 'game nights'. Through all that, the renegade definitely won a reasonable (certainly not a majority) of games, and at least got to a final showdown with the sheriff with regular frequency.

Bang! is all about playing the other players. If you're the renegade, you've got to convince the sheriff that you're a deputy, constantly cast doubt on the others. Pay attention to what others do and point out why those moves obviously make them the outlaw or renegade. Obviously, you can and should do this even if you aren't the renegade, but it's especially important in that role.

This all works even better if you have a regular group that plays this from time to time. Then you can pick up on tendencies and play off of them. My avatar comes from my unreasonably high percentage of being the renegade, BTW.

Ideal scenario for a renegade win, imo: Renegade has selected a character card that has useful powers to the end (NOT vulture sam for instance) and the sheriff's character power is more limited. Cowardly outlaws don't (or can't) all declare themselves at once, allowing them to be gunned down by the white hats and the renegade. In the aftermath, the sheriff never knows who the renegade is until they get to a final showdown. Then it's just a matter of luck and skill with the cards. Not easy, but that's the nature of the character ... there's no "TEAM" in "RENEGADE".
 
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Brad Keck
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I've seen the renegade win enough times.

Back to the original topic, though, my friend tells of a game where he went second and was Jose Delgado. He got a volcanic and kept trading in blue cards until he had enough Bang!s to kill the Sheriff.

Two minute game. Although, like mooka above, he played 100s of games during lunch at work and this only happened once.
 
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Raman Ohri
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TheKeck wrote:
I've seen the renegade win enough times.

Back to the original topic, though, my friend tells of a game where he went second and was Jose Delgado. He got a volcanic and kept trading in blue cards until he had enough Bang!s to kill the Sheriff.

Two minute game. Although, like mooka above, he played 100s of games during lunch at work and this only happened once.


Yeah, I've seen that a few times. Also seen it with Suzy Lafayette ... volcanic, plus much luck of the draw.
 
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Gary Pressler
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Maybe I would like the game more if this exact scenario hadn't happened to me on my 4th play. Any game where a player can be eliminated before getting to play a single turn, however unlikely, is not worth my taking a chance "playing". With all the many great games out there to choose from, I'll pick one where I can be certain to actually participate in, thanks.
 
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Raman Ohri
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GaryP wrote:
Maybe I would like the game more if this exact scenario hadn't happened to me on my 4th play. Any game where a player can be eliminated before getting to play a single turn, however unlikely, is not worth my taking a chance "playing". With all the many great games out there to choose from, I'll pick one where I can be certain to actually participate in, thanks.


That's certainly a potential problem with bang. If you are the 7th or 8th player in the turn order, it's not that uncommon that you wont even get one turn, either due to jail (ppl protecting the sheriff from his neighbors) and/or just the sheer number of gatling/bang/indians. We've got some variants for 9 and 10 players, and in those the 9th and 10th players get an extra life to start to help make up for this.
 
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