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Fairy Tale» Forums » Rules

Subject: Effect Order rss

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zz huang
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Found it weird when I was trying this game out for the first time: Is there an order in which the card effects are applied? I know we have to apply all unflips before any flips, but when we have multiple flips or unflips, which player goes first? its like - uh uh, you flip your card first, no, wait i will flip my card first, .. or lets just turn our backs and each of us picks a card to flip without looking at the other...

dunno, how do you guys do it?

Note... Basic rules only
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Paul Sauberer
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According to the rules, in the basic game all Open cards are resolved before all Closed cards. They are resolved simultaneously.

There isn't really a need to have a turn order for these, as nothing depends on another card when done in this order. By doing all opens first, that gives each player his maximum number of choices of where to apply any Close cards.

In the advanced game, Hunts are done first, then Open, then Closed.

Note that I have the Japanese version of the game and don't know if it as explicit in the Z-Man version.
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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I assume that you mean to ask if two players should flip cards simultaneously or if there should be some sort of order. The game doesn't specify, so I assume that it is simultaneous, just like everything else in the game.
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zz huang
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From my reading of the instructions, that seemed to be the case too, it just felt like the choice of cards to flip would be of significance to other players.. You can imagine we were sitting at the table while waiting for each other to flip a card before deciding which card to flip ourselves. I will try out again.
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Paul Sauberer
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Sorry, I misread the question. I also believe that the decision on which cards to flip should be simultaneous. I can think of a couple of ways to accomplish this, in cases where there are more than one to choose from and it could impact other players.

First, cover your cards and secretly flip whichever card you choose, then all uncover.

Second, pick up your cards and arrange each as either face up or face down, whichever you want them to be. Then all lay them back down at the same time.

Generally, this will only be an issue later in the game as more cards accumulate, so it shouldn't be a big deal. Even then, often there are no options as to which card to flip or it is so obvious that there would be no need to hide them.
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Paul Sauberer
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
Cards played that turn are revealed simultaneously. The cards should have been placed face down (in play) in front of the respective players before they were revealed. This eliminates unethical gameplay.

The effects are played in the order of HUNT - OPEN - CLOSE - EXCHANGE*

HUNT - If any of the revealed cards have the HUNT ability.. all shadow cards are immediately closed.

OPEN - If any of the revealed cards (still open) have the OPEN ability those the effects are triggered simultaneously while maximizing the number of targets.

CLOSE - If any of the revealed cards (still open) have the CLOSE ability those effects are triggered simultaneously while maximizing the number of targets.

EXCHANGE* - If any of the revealed cards are shadow cards.. the owner of that card may exchange one of his/her cards in play with one of his/her partner's cards in play. (This can include the shadow card.)


Note: In the Z-Man release OPEN and CLOSE have been replaced with UNFLIP and FLIP respectively

* Richard Garfield's Team Variant Rule


I think the original poster is talking about situations where, for example, if two players played "Close 1 of my xxxx" cards and there is a choice of cards to close, that choice could be affected by what the other player chose to close. It could affect majorities, for example.

I think that the choices should be made simultaneously and not in any turn order.
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Chris
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zzajizz wrote:
Is there an order in which the card effects are applied? ... when we have multiple flips or unflips, which player goes first?


The rules are clear on this, without being as explicit as many would like. The actions are simultaneous, there is no order. There are no timing issues here. This has never mattered in any games we've played. Just do it. It works well like this, though it seems that players used to timing issues find this strange, it seems too open-ended somehow for many.

Paul's suggestion on covering your cards with your arm sounds reasonable if you absolutely can't do this simultaneously. You could always roll dice, or let the player of the card causing the effect go last. I think we may have done the latter, just by chance, sometimes.
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Brian Darnell
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
NO.1's do create the only timing problem because although the effects are triggered simultaneously.. in reality one player usually selects first.. creating the possibility of unethical play. Players should agree on which method will be used to remedy this problem during gameplay.


I ran into this problem playing tonight. I played a flip/close all, and it mattered which one my opponent closed in determining which one I should flip/close. We couldn't find anything about timing in the rules, but eventually my opponent just decided to flip one and it made my decision for me.

I didn't see any good easy way of doing it simultaneously. I suppose the best way would be to write it down or something.
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Brian Keenan
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Well, you need to deal the cards each round - just have the dealer switch to the left each round. If there's an issue with flip/unflip order, just go in the turn order of other card games (left of the dealer first, dealer last).
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Randy Cox
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bkeenan_uiuc wrote:
Well, you need to deal the cards each round - just have the dealer switch to the left each round. If there's an issue with flip/unflip order, just go in the turn order of other card games (left of the dealer first, dealer last).


This sounds reasonable to me. I've only read the rules and this issue was the first thing that popped into my head. "Completely Simultaneous Play" just doesn't cut it for me. I need some guidance when there are actually options.
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fer moros
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Definitely, there will be situations where the order matters:

A plays a card that says "All flip any"
B plays "everyone flips a fairy"
C plays any card with no action (just to simplify the example)

If B goes first , C could flip a fairy and following that, he has to flip another card due to A.

But if A goes first, C decides to flip a fairy, followed by B card action . Now A has not fairy card to flip. Then he only flips one card for that round.

I suppose that if also C plays an action card the possibilities can be even more, right?


thanks
fer
happy games!
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Giles Pritchard
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It's a fiteen minute fun game, just do it! -As they say on the NIKE ads...

If there really is an issue here I would suggest playing Goa instead, or failing that, the player who played the card gets to hunt/unflip/flip last. --> The order of who does what goes around the table in the same direction as the card draft did, with the player of the card last.

I have never really had this issue and have played the game hundreds of times, that's not to say there is no issue, but it's never been one we've worried about too much.

Cheers and have fun!!

Giles.
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fmoros wrote:
Definitely, there will be situations where the order matters:

A plays a card that says "All flip any"
B plays "everyone flips a fairy"
C plays any card with no action (just to simplify the example)

If B goes first , C could flip a fairy and following that, he has to flip another card due to A.

But if A goes first, C decides to flip a fairy, followed by B card action . Now A has not fairy card to flip. Then he only flips one card for that round.

I suppose that if also C plays an action card the possibilities can be even more, right?


thanks
fer
happy games!


The rules state that you should apply as many effects as possible so player A would have to flip their fairy for the player B card first and then flip ANY card for their own effect.

I suppose you could interpret "as many effects as possible" however you would like but since there is no "turn order" I chose to play it that each player must make as many actions a possible even if making less actions is more beneficial to them.

Jeez, I've only played this 3 times (only once the correct way) and already I sound like a rules lawyer.


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Gergo Tothmihaly
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Quote:
The rules state that you should apply as many effects as possible so player A would have to flip their fairy for the player B card first and then flip ANY card for their own effect.

I suppose you could interpret "as many effects as possible" however you would like but since there is no "turn order" I chose to play it that each player must make as many actions a possible even if making less actions is more beneficial to them.

Jeez, I've only played this 3 times (only once the correct way) and already I sound like a rules lawyer.
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