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Subject: Wave 2 imperial and rebel squads. rss

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Pilgrim
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I was tinkering with my new wave 2 ships to come up with some ideas for squads. I think I would normaly avoid fully equiping ships to avoid placing to many points in one ship. However It is just to irresitable with the Slave 1 and the Falcon!

Imperial

For my 100 point imperial squad I decided it would be best to get 3 ships on the board. (As a matter of fact I tried with rebels also but the falcon is just to expensive!)

Kath Scarlet (firespray)
-Slave 1 -Engine Upgrade -proton torps - Weapons engineer -Ion Cannon -proximity mines.

Soontir Fel (Tie Interceptor)
-Marksmanship -Stealth Device

Academy Pilot

What is my strategy? Flip I normally make it up on the spot, and do alright to. Both Soontir and Kath can hit quickly and hard due to high maneuverability. Academy pilot can add and extra force to distract the rebels.

Rebels

I was keen to have 3 ships piloted but the temptation to load up the falcon just like the slave was to much. I will probably learn from my mistake fast. I am also gutted to miss out the y-wing as it is one of my favorite ships. This is my 99 point squad

Lando Calrissian (Falcon
-Mellennium Falcon -Engine upgrade -Luke Skywalker - Nien Nunb -Homing missiles -Veteran instincts

Tycho Chelchu
-Elusiveness -assault missiles - stealth device

There is defiantly a bit more strategy with this force due to complementary cards. Take lando, Nien Nunb makes all forward manovers green which aids Landos ability, after preforming a green manover other ships get a free action. Though with only one over ship it may not be the best call.

Tycho uses stealth device and elusiveness to avoid being hit. As elusiveness causes stress, but stress aint so bad for Tycho the stealth device should last for a good portion of the game.

In summation

I think these squads probably overload the falcon and the slave, but who knows it may just work. I look forward to taking them for a spin.

Check out more stuff
Wave 1 session report: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/940362/x-wing-and-wings-of-w...
50mm game room blog: 50mmgameroom.blogspot.co.nz

 
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Jeff Dunford
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General comment:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.

This game is won by piling on attacks each turn, getting an enemy ship in the overlapping firing arcs of several of your ships. Two ships can't pile anything on, and 3 ships aren't much better (unless they're the Falcon + 2 X-wings or the Falcon + X-wing + Y-wing or maybe the Falcon + some Missile-packing A-wings - since the Falcon pretty much always has a target in it's "arc").

Two "all-stars" on a team cost a lot of points and don't leave room for many support ships. I recommend you either go with one "all-star" and some generic sidekicks (like Turr Phennir + PtL and 4 Alpha Squadrons, or a loaded-out Han Solo + some cheap pals), or go with a few lower-cost named pilots that work well together (like Dutch + Garven + Lando, or Chewy + Draw Their Fire, Biggs + R2-F2 and Wedge).
 
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Michael Ptak
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For kicks I tried tricking out Bobba Fett fully and set him against some rebel fighters. The results weren't pretty.

The large ships aren't meant to run by themselves or with a few number of ships. In the case of the Firespray, you need other ships to draw attention from it so it can use it's arsenal fully. Whether this is dropping mines for your fighters to heard the enemy into, or hanging out on the sidelines blasting away with fake proton torpedoes, or whatever. The large upgrade bar on the Firespray should not be encouragement to load it up with everything. Rather, think of it as how versatile the ship is so that you can equip it with a number of special combos to support your strategy (like toting both kinds of missiles).
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Jordan S.
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Yes, I love the big ships but they get so expensive, so quickly! There are ways to cut some corners and still get them into your squad, though. Don't underestimate the lower-skilled (and cheaper) pilot options. Even the "no-name" Bounty Hunter can use the Firespray to put the hurt on some Rebels, and his Pilot Skill 3 means he still goes before those rookie X-wing pilots and Prototype A-wings.
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Pilgrim
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iNano78 wrote:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.

This game is won by piling on attacks each turn, getting an enemy ship in the overlapping firing arcs of several of your ships. +


I think I disagree. I have only played a handful of games but I believe, yes having a bunch of ships makes an easy strategy. However I believe 3-4 rebel ships, especially y-wings with ions and 4-6 imperials can make good squads as long as you ensure they can work together and play strategically.
 
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Pilgrim
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Norsehound wrote:
For kicks I tried tricking out Bobba Fett fully and set him against some rebel fighters. The results weren't pretty.

The large ships aren't meant to run by themselves or with a few number of ships. In the case of the Firespray, you need other ships to draw attention from it so it can use it's arsenal fully.


I agree I don't think they should be fully overloaded. I think you should have at least 3-4 ships but as I said the temptation is to great. I only plan on using this set up for a couple of games to get to know the big ships.
 
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Pilgrim
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Webhead123 wrote:
Yes, I love the big ships but they get so expensive, so quickly! There are ways to cut some corners and still get them into your squad, though. Don't underestimate the lower-skilled (and cheaper) pilot options.


Good point. I defiantly will incorporate the big ships when possible but as you say will utilise the cheeper option. Maybe even try out the outer rim smugglers with a pilot or two.
 
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Jordan S.
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Steveisatree wrote:
Good point. I defiantly will incorporate the big ships when possible but as you say will utilise the cheeper option. Maybe even try out the outer rim smugglers with a pilot or two.

I slapped together a build today for the Outer Rim Smuggler that helps you get the Falcon to the table but saves you some points. I haven't playtested it yet but it may be worth looking at:

Outer Rim Smuggler (27 pts.)
Millenium Falcon (1 pt.)
Shield Upgrade (4 pts.)
Chewbacca (4 pts.)

Total - 36 pts.

If you want a few points back, drop the Shield Upgrade. The idea here is to use the Falcon as a tank and roadblock. Block enemy fighters and use the ship's plentiful Hull and Shields to draw fire off your other fighters. You'd want to support it with heavy-hitters, since it doesn't hit very hard by itself. Perhaps Wedge/Horton and another ship or two with torpedoes and/or missiles.

Again, totally untested but it is a way to get that ship on the table and still have enough points to add supporting ships.
 
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Jon Z
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I've tried building both rebel and imperial squadrons using the falcon and slave 1.

Obviously, these 2 ships take up a lot of points. In a 100 point list, they approach just about half the points. However, it is possible to do some swarm chaining with both rebel and imperial big ships. You can also get a big ship and 2 or 3 fighter ships in there (imperials can obviously have more) if you use the lower skilled pilots (meaning don't always make lists with han solo and bobba fett).

Even with some clever list building, the big ships still stick out. I think that we could be seeing a lot of 2 falcon/2 slave 1 builds. Say something like han solo + swarm tactics and a dirt cheap falcon clone or bobba fett + swarm tactics and a dirt cheap firespray.

Also, I think we may be seeing more points values heading towards 150 to allow more opportunities for wave 2 squadrons.
 
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Todd Warnken
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I used this force last Saturday to good effect:

Krassis Trelix + Heavy Laser Cannon + Gunner + Proximity Mine
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
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Pilgrim
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I gave both squadrons a go the other day. I must admit they weren't to bad. The fighter I was most disappointed with was the falcon, I just didn't feel like it was that amazing.

I lost my game with the imperials just, it was my imperial squad vs 2 x wing, a y wing and a a wing. It ended up being the slave v the y wing. I though the slave was pretty good and has some great upgrades. The engine upgrade giving the boast action was good because it ment I could always move the slave into firing position with the front or auxiliary weapons.

I would defiantly not load it up as much as I did in future to allow for other pilots.

My rebel build ended up working a treat thrashing a interceptor 3 fighters and a advanced tie squad. The a wing didn't get any hits with the stealth device and elusiveness it was very hard to hit.

I thought the falcon was ok but just that, personally I prefer the slave as it can hit much harder. Once again I would not load it up this much normally. I will post a session report and pics soon.
 
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Scott Egan
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iNano78 wrote:
General comment:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.
.


You make this comment as if it were fact but 3 ship rebel builds were completely viable through Wave 1.
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Jeff Dunford
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ScottieATF wrote:
iNano78 wrote:
General comment:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.
.


You make this comment as if it were fact but 3 ship rebel builds were completely viable through Wave 1.


Really? I've never seen one win - except when facing another 3-ship Rebel squad. Obviously a weak squad can beat other weak squad, but a weak squad will usually lose to a strong squad (e.g. 4-ship Rebels or 7+ ship Imperials in wave 1).
 
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Charlie Theel
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I would remove the Ion cannon from your Firespray for sure. You will be using Missiles on one of the passes and the native 3 attack of the Firespray is pretty solid - no need for an Ion cannon which will be ineffective against the YT-1300 or another Firespray anyway.

My favorite Imperial list right now is:

Krassis Treelix in Firespray with Heavy Laser Cannon

Alpha Squadron Interceptor x2

Vader with Determination

This list has firepower and relative numbers. You put Vader on one flank and the Squints on the other, run the Firespray up the middle and unleash the HLC which is just nasty.
 
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Charlie Theel
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iNano78 wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
iNano78 wrote:
General comment:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.
.


You make this comment as if it were fact but 3 ship rebel builds were completely viable through Wave 1.


Really? I've never seen one win - except when facing another 3-ship Rebel squad. Obviously a weak squad can beat other weak squad, but a weak squad will usually lose to a strong squad (e.g. 4-ship Rebels or 7+ ship Imperials in wave 1).


I've seen Biggs with R2-F2 and Wedge along with a 3rd pilot win several games. Difficult to take down Biggs with 2 attack dice against his 3 agility and Wedge just tears you up.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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charlest wrote:
I would remove the Ion cannon from your Firespray for sure. You will be using Missiles on one of the passes and the native 3 attack of the Firespray is pretty solid - no need for an Ion cannon which will be ineffective against the YT-1300 or another Firespray anyway.

My favorite Imperial list right now is:

Krassis Treelix in Firespray with Heavy Laser Cannon

Alpha Squadron Interceptor x2

Vader with Determination

This list has firepower and relative numbers. You put Vader on one flank and the Squints on the other, run the Firespray up the middle and unleash the HLC which is just nasty.


I like this proposed squad, but I'd swap Determination for Draw Their Fire. Despite his double-action, Vader is the least threatening of these ships (only 2 attack dice) and his shields already act as a deterrent. Most opponents are going to fire on one the other 3 targets first, either hoping to one-shot an Interceptor or wipe out the intimidating Firespray... so you'd might as well make use of Vader's shields and absorb some crits.
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Jeff Dunford
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charlest wrote:
iNano78 wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
iNano78 wrote:
General comment:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.
.


You make this comment as if it were fact but 3 ship rebel builds were completely viable through Wave 1.


Really? I've never seen one win - except when facing another 3-ship Rebel squad. Obviously a weak squad can beat other weak squad, but a weak squad will usually lose to a strong squad (e.g. 4-ship Rebels or 7+ ship Imperials in wave 1).


I've seen Biggs with R2-F2 and Wedge along with a 3rd pilot win several games. Difficult to take down Biggs with 2 attack dice against his 3 agility and Wedge just tears you up.


I've never lost to that squad (and I've played against it 3 or 4 times). I've heard it's good against other Rebel squads, but it generally loses to any 7-ship TIE swarm or Vader + Howlrunner + 4 generic TIEs (a common 6-ship squad in wave 1).

Wedge, Biggs + R2-F2, and two Gold-squad Y-wings + Ion Cannons won a local tournament, but he only faced one Imperial opponent and told me that particular opponent had only played X-wing once before. For fun, we played to see how his squad would fair against my 7-TIE tournament squad (basically Howlrunner, Mauler, Backstabber and 4 Academies)... and he took out one of my ships (Howlrunner) before I wiped him out (took 60 minutes).

In my experience, Biggs + R2-F2 usually bites it on either the first or second turn involving combat (e.g. first pass). Then the swarm turns and focuses on Wedge. I'd be happy to trade 2-for-1 against those particular pilots, but I rarely lose more than 2 TIEs before taking them out with focused fire + Howlrunner.

But then again, there wasn't much that could beat an experienced TIE swarm strategy in wave 1... besides the clock (e.g. 60 minute matches sometimes weren't enough to get the full win).
 
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Robert M.
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iNano78 wrote:
charlest wrote:
I've seen Biggs with R2-F2 and Wedge along with a 3rd pilot win several games. Difficult to take down Biggs with 2 attack dice against his 3 agility and Wedge just tears you up.


I've never lost to that squad (and I've played against it 3 or 4 times). I've heard it's good against other Rebel squads, but it generally loses to any 7-ship TIE swarm or Vader + Howlrunner + 4 generic TIEs (a common 6-ship squad in wave 1)...

In my experience, Biggs + R2-F2 usually bites it on either the first or second turn involving combat (e.g. first pass). Then the swarm turns and focuses on Wedge. I'd be happy to trade 2-for-1 against those particular pilots, but I rarely lose more than 2 TIEs before taking them out with focused fire + Howlrunner.

This has been my experience, as well: even with 3 Agility, Biggs doesn't have an action to back up his dice, and goes down in one round of firing.

iNano78 wrote:
But then again, there wasn't much that could beat an experienced TIE swarm strategy in wave 1... besides the clock (e.g. 60 minute matches sometimes weren't enough to get the full win).

It depends on the makeup of the swarm, deployment choices on both sides, asteroid positioning, and the experience level of the Rebel player. With 4X and 3X/1Y squads, I had about a 50/50 record against Imperial squads of 7-8 ships.

I actually think the 6-ship Imperial builds are (were) much, much stronger.
 
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Scott Egan
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iNano78 wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
iNano78 wrote:
General comment:

2-ship Rebels and 3-ship Imperials will be bad for the same reason that 3-ship Rebels and 4- or 5-ship Imperials were bad in Wave 1: They just don't bring enough attacks to the party.
.


You make this comment as if it were fact but 3 ship rebel builds were completely viable through Wave 1.


Really? I've never seen one win - except when facing another 3-ship Rebel squad. Obviously a weak squad can beat other weak squad, but a weak squad will usually lose to a strong squad (e.g. 4-ship Rebels or 7+ ship Imperials in wave 1).


Not only did I win a Kessel Run event with a 3-ship build, but the majority of my games played through Wave 1 were with varying 3-ship builds, not once did I match-up against another 3 ship build either.

All of the 30-40 some odd games (I stopped keeping tallies after 25, but to that point the record was 22-3) I played using a 3-ship build were against Rebel squads of 4, or Imp squads from 6-8.

 
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Scott Egan
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Quote:
But then again, there wasn't much that could beat an experienced TIE swarm strategy in wave 1... besides the clock (e.g. 60 minute matches sometimes weren't enough to get the full win).


Again as the other poster said this statement doesn't track. Other then a few Chicken Little posts from newer players that couldn't beat Swarms, because they just lined up and flew into them, we didn't see the type of dominance your touting in any of the organized play results reported.

6 TiE builds played out better then the 7-8 man TiE Swarms.

6 TiE builds did fine with it, 4 ship Rebel builds did fine with it. 3 ship Rebel builds had issues (against 7-8 TiE Builds) there but did fine in 6 TiE match-ups and 4 ship build Rebel match-ups.
 
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Scott Egan
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Quote:

This has been my experience, as well: even with 3 Agility, Biggs doesn't have an action to back up his dice, and goes down in one round of firing.


He'll go down if you give 6-8 TiEs shots at him, but if you cut that number to 4 or 5 or lengthen the range, then he isn't going to fall in one round. People fly way to lazy when it comes to putting Biggs on the table.
 
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Brandon B
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A few thoughts:

On the squads listed by the OP, I think 2 ships is definitely too few for me,especially since one of them is an A wing. You are using his actions to make him more defensive, and he doesn't have very good offense to help attack.

I'm also not as sold on Lando as a lot of people are. The Falcon is a huge ship, it will require a lot of maneuvering to avoid asteroids and other ships. I'm not sure how easy it will be to keep him doing green maneuvers AND keep him in range 1 of other ships.

As far as Biggs, 3 ship lists, etc. I have had decent luck keeping him alive sometimes, but others he gets wiped out, and it's not necessarily due to bad flying. 3 agility is good, but if he is facing 6-8 attacks, eventually one or two will land. Still, as long as he can keep my opponent from focusing fire on Wedge for 2 turns, he is worth my investment. The main problem I've had with him is when facing a huge swarm, the back row of the swarm will often be in range of Wedge, but NOT in range of Biggs, so Wedge fails to get his protection. I think it takes a lot of practice to maximize his ability.

Somebody mentioned that 150 point squads might be the norm for wave 2, and I kinda hope it will be. I've played 5 or 6 at this point range and it's pretty fun. Maybe too big for tournament play, but I really enjoy using 5 or 6 high level pilots in a huge space battle. That's more fun to me than using 3 named pilots or 4-5 nobodies.
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Charlie Theel
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iNano78 wrote:
charlest wrote:
I would remove the Ion cannon from your Firespray for sure. You will be using Missiles on one of the passes and the native 3 attack of the Firespray is pretty solid - no need for an Ion cannon which will be ineffective against the YT-1300 or another Firespray anyway.

My favorite Imperial list right now is:

Krassis Treelix in Firespray with Heavy Laser Cannon

Alpha Squadron Interceptor x2

Vader with Determination

This list has firepower and relative numbers. You put Vader on one flank and the Squints on the other, run the Firespray up the middle and unleash the HLC which is just nasty.


I like this proposed squad, but I'd swap Determination for Draw Their Fire. Despite his double-action, Vader is the least threatening of these ships (only 2 attack dice) and his shields already act as a deterrent. Most opponents are going to fire on one the other 3 targets first, either hoping to one-shot an Interceptor or wipe out the intimidating Firespray... so you'd might as well make use of Vader's shields and absorb some crits.


Good call. Determination was just there because of the extra point. Will try out your proposal in the future.
 
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Robert M.
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ScottieATF wrote:
Quote:

This has been my experience, as well: even with 3 Agility, Biggs doesn't have an action to back up his dice, and goes down in one round of firing.


He'll go down if you give 6-8 TiEs shots at him, but if you cut that number to 4 or 5 or lengthen the range, then he isn't going to fall in one round. People fly way to lazy when it comes to putting Biggs on the table.

People generally fly way too lazy when it comes to everything, but it is pretty easy to kill Biggs.

My end-of-Wave-1 Imperial list was Vader + Concussion, Howlrunner, 4x Academy TIE. The missile reliably deals 2-3 damage against Biggs + R2-F2, meaning the 5 TIE fighters (4 of which have backup from Howlrunner) have to deal at most 3 damage to kill him. A string of luck that goes my opponent's way can save him, but the median result is a dead Biggs on the first pass.

There are ways to get around that, of course--have Garven generate Focus for Biggs ahead of the fire from the Academy Pilots, park Biggs behind an asteroid for 5 effective Agility, kill Howlrunner before PS1 enters combat, etc.--but they're inconsistent and/or technically demanding.

I do believe that 3-ship Rebel lists can work, in the hands of an experienced or talented player, which I'm sure you are. But they don't work for me, and I haven't seen it happen often for anyone else.
 
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Scott Egan
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Vorpal Sword wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
Quote:

This has been my experience, as well: even with 3 Agility, Biggs doesn't have an action to back up his dice, and goes down in one round of firing.


He'll go down if you give 6-8 TiEs shots at him, but if you cut that number to 4 or 5 or lengthen the range, then he isn't going to fall in one round. People fly way to lazy when it comes to putting Biggs on the table.

People generally fly way too lazy when it comes to everything, but it is pretty easy to kill Biggs.

My end-of-Wave-1 Imperial list was Vader + Concussion, Howlrunner, 4x Academy TIE. The missile reliably deals 2-3 damage against Biggs + R2-F2, meaning the 5 TIE fighters (4 of which have backup from Howlrunner) have to deal at most 3 damage to kill him. A string of luck that goes my opponent's way can save him, but the median result is a dead Biggs on the first pass.

There are ways to get around that, of course--have Garven generate Focus for Biggs ahead of the fire from the Academy Pilots, park Biggs behind an asteroid for 5 effective Agility, kill Howlrunner before PS1 enters combat, etc.--but they're inconsistent and/or technically demanding.

I do believe that 3-ship Rebel lists can work, in the hands of an experienced or talented player, which I'm sure you are. But they don't work for me, and I haven't seen it happen often for anyone else.


I've even won games with 2 Y-wings and 1 X-wing. It didn't work well but it somehow worked.

Overall Biggs really hates Missles, and I've found the best way to get around them is to really time your entry well. Missles on Vader does put him in a little bit of a contrary position in regards to him wanting to maintain range and the other TiEs wanting to get in there. Skirting the sides of enemy formations is really where I've found his sweet spot. You have to trim the edges with him in order to force enough shots to protect your hitters, but to not get him just burnt down hard. And I agree that's technically demanding, but that's the game.

My last 3 ship build was Wedge, Garven, Dutch. With the extra action utility I was able to make use of R2-F2 on Wedge while maintaining offense (or extra defense if needed) But again it was about drawling out my opponents formation and getting in on the edges to spread out shots. It was more of a build to deal with 4 X-Wing builds, as two torpedoes will bring down a X-wing, then you are playing 3v3 and you have more bells and whistles.

I don't see a reason to play a 3 ship squad presently though, except with the Falcon.
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