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Subject: Second time play questions rss

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Jim Cote
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Ok one more solo game with good old Frodo and Sam...

1. If a character needs a card to satisfy a requirement, does Miruvor allow Frodo to pass a white Hobbit card "as a wild card" to another player? Or does this card need to be used as if the receiving character were playing it themselves?

2. The rules say "Yellow Feature cards are part of a player’s hand and count towards the hand size". I can't find any mention of a hand limit other than the use of the Lembas card. Is that all?

3. I reached Mount Doom with Sam alone as the ring-bearer (poor Mr. Frodo!). Sam had a single card remaining and rolled "2 cards". His ability applies here, correct? So I won the game?!

4. Gandalf cards do not count as cards for the purpose of discarding, correct? For example, if Frodo has no cards, but is required to discard one, he cannot play 5 shields to grab and discard a Gandalf card?

5. Is it allowable to use Gandalf's Magic card after drawing an Event tile AND revealing a Hobbit card (eg Fire of Orthanc)? Doing this allows you to see what cards you need to discard BEFORE deciding to use Gandalf or not.

6. In Chris Lawson's most recent rules, under The Die for rolling 1/2/3 dots it says "Move your Hobbits 1, 2 or 3 steps into the darkness on the Corruption line." I assume the plural Hobbits is a typo? It doesn't make sense to have to move all Hobbits on a die roll.

 
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Jack Wraith
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ekted wrote:
1. If a character needs a card to satisfy a requirement, does Miruvor allow Frodo to pass a white Hobbit card "as a wild card" to another player? Or does this card need to be used as if the receiving character were playing it themselves?


It needs to be used as if the receiving character were using it. Frodo's power works solely for Frodo's play of cards.

ekted wrote:
2. The rules say "Yellow Feature cards are part of a player’s hand and count towards the hand size". I can't find any mention of a hand limit other than the use of the Lembas card. Is that all?


Jim, I'm not sure where you're seeing this phrase. There is no hand limit rule in LotR. There IS a limit on cards which can be played from your hand, which is two. Yellow cards do NOT count against that limit, as stated on p. 12: "Yellow cards do not count towards the limit of two playable cards during a turn." The function of Lembas is simply that the player's hand is increased to six from whatever it may currently be at the time (0 to 5.)

ekted wrote:
3. I reached Mount Doom with Sam alone as the ring-bearer (poor Mr. Frodo!). Sam had a single card remaining and rolled "2 cards". His ability applies here, correct? So I won the game?!


That's correct. Good roll on the die.

ekted wrote:
4. Gandalf cards do not count as cards for the purpose of discarding, correct? For example, if Frodo has no cards, but is required to discard one, he cannot play 5 shields to grab and discard a Gandalf card?


That's a good question. The rule on p. 12 is: "Gandalf cards are never part of a player's hand. They are applied immediately and then discarded." So, I would say that they can't be used to discard. However, you could toss the 5 shields to pick up Persistence, draw 4 cards from the deck, and discard one.

ekted wrote:
5. Is it allowable to use Gandalf's Magic card after drawing an Event tile AND revealing a Hobbit card (eg Fire of Orthanc)? Doing this allows you to see what cards you need to discard BEFORE deciding to use Gandalf or not.


Yes. Gandalf cards, like all Yellow cards, can be played at any time. So, if you started the event 'Fire of Orthanc' and didn't like the requirement, you could play Magic to ignore it or not.

ekted wrote:
6. In Chris Lawson's most recent rules, under The Die for rolling 1/2/3 dots it says "Move your Hobbits 1, 2 or 3 steps into the darkness on the Corruption line." I assume the plural Hobbits is a typo? It doesn't make sense to have to move all Hobbits on a die roll.


Perhaps not a typo, rather an attempt to be all-encompassing for events that affect more than one player. I don't remember if there are any like that (i.e. one player rolls and everyone suffers equally) but unless specified to work that way, the rules function as you interpret: one player rolls and must move 1-3 spaces if he rolls dots (except for Sam, of course.)
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Jim Cote
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Thanks for all the answers.

Jackwraith wrote:
Jim, I'm not sure where you're seeing this phrase.


It's taken right out of Chris Lawson's official rules expansion:

http://files.boardgamegeek.com/viewfile.php3?fileid=2254
 
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Jack Wraith
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Ah. I'd never read the document. Now that I have, I'm still stumped. I have no idea why that comment is in there, because there's nothing else in the rules (as you noticed) about a restriction on hand size. In all the time that I've played the game (from 2 players to 5), we've frequently had people with any number of cards and the only situation that applies is the one you noticed: Lembas.
 
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Matthew M
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I do believe the only hand-size consideration in the game is in regards to using Lembas.

-MMM
 
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Jim Cote
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Jackwraith wrote:
Yes. Gandalf cards, like all Yellow cards, can be played at any time. So, if you started the event 'Fire of Orthanc' and didn't like the requirement, you could play Magic to ignore it or not.


I'm not sure that is so. According to this document:

"While the rules state that Gandalf cards can be used at any time, there are specific points during play when they are applied. For more details see the Game Flow description as to when Gandalf can be called and the cards used."

"While the rules state that Yellow Feature cards can be used at any time, there are specific points during play when they are applied. For more details see the Game Flow description as to when they can be used."

"The Ring-bearer may only put on the Ring after an Event tile has been revealed (i.e. before Step 1b: Execute an Event tile), after an Event has been completed (i.e. before Step 2a: Play one white/grey card or 2b: Draw two cards or Heal) or after the Active Player has played a card (i.e. before Step 2a: Play one white/grey card or Step 3: Clear up). You may not use the Ring during the middle of an Event or during the middle of card play (be it a Hobbit, Feature, Yellow Feature or Gandalf card). While the rules state that the Ring may be used at any time, there are only four instances when it may be used, before Steps 1b, 2a, 2b or 3. For details see the Game Flow description."


I can find no section titled "Game Flow" in this document, but the gist is that some things can't be interrupted. For example, you can't play a card with 2 fighting symbols, move the marker 1 space, then announce you are going to use the ring. This is why I asked the question about using Gandalf:Magic for the Fire of Orthanc event after revealing the Hobbit card. It almost seems like interrupting a single action.
 
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Werner Bär
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The section 'game flow' is included in the online document at Chris Lawson's site at:
http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.lawson/rk/lotr/gameflow.ht...

'Magic' is listed to be applied before Turn Step 1b: Execute a tile. So according to this document, you can't apply it after you started with the event.

In our group, we always played this way (without searching the extended document). You either activate Gandalf to ignore the event, or accept it and all that happenes. If not, you could allow a call of gandalf to undo an event after bad dice rolls already made, and the like. That doesn't look like it was intended, since there are more specific cards to deal with that.
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Jim Cote
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Ah thanks. I didn't think the link "Design Notes" would be Game Flow. Printing that page off now to keep in the box.
 
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