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Paths of Glory» Forums » Strategy

Subject: What about the CP? rss

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Björn Hansson
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OK, we all know that playing the CP is a bit trickier than playing the Allies. Hence the whole bidding concept.

Being a newbie, with just a couple of games behind me, I wonder what/where/how to go - and when???
Here are my thoughts:

* Do I go after France relentlessly or should I try to swithch focus when the trenches start to build up? Perhaps try to strike mother Russia before she gets all her troops on the board?
* How far into France must I get?
* What to do with Turkey? Opening up too many fronts is bad for the CP. Should I try attacking Russia from the south or should I be more afraid of the Brit?
* People keep telling me that the CP always run over Italy. I have yet to experience an Italian entry. (All the games I've played have ended before total that) How is that possible? The Austrians and the Germans are busy elsewhere. The Italians should easily be able to capture a lot of VPs.
* Any other ideas and suggestions?
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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Björn,

You can find about 16,000 messages on this topic at the CSW Paths of Glory section:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@225.3ZMuaVCNNgb.11@.ee6d...

I have not read all of these messages, but from what I have read it appears there are different opinons on the topic.

Eric
 
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John McCoy
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taragalinas wrote:
OK, we all know that playing the CP is a bit trickier than playing the Allies. Hence the whole bidding concept.

Being a newbie, with just a couple of games behind me, I wonder what/where/how to go - and when???
Here are my thoughts:

* Do I go after France relentlessly or should I try to swithch focus when the trenches start to build up? Perhaps try to strike mother Russia before she gets all her troops on the board?


That's pretty much the question, yeah. Either can work, but I think you need everything to go right for you to outright defeat France early. And later it is all but impossible. You're probably better off targeting Russia while doing what you can to keep the Western Allies off-balance.

Quote:

* How far into France must I get?


You can win without taking any French territory at all. In fact it's not uncommon for a CP player to end up losing ground in the West, digging in behind the Rhine, and win by concentrating on other fronts.

Quote:

* What to do with Turkey? Opening up too many fronts is bad for the CP. Should I try attacking Russia from the south or should I be more afraid of the Brit?


The key with Turkey is not to get overwhelmed by allied attacks from too many directions. You'll probably want to reinforce Turkey with some corps from Bulgaria or Germany. The southern part of the NE map is fairly secure early on, so just position some troops a bit outside of Constantinople ready to respond to a BEF landing or a Russian offensive. You ought to be able to hold both of them off if you pick good defensive ground. Going on the offensive is probably a mistake prior to getting some Turkish armies into play.

Quote:

* People keep telling me that the CP always run over Italy. I have yet to experience an Italian entry. (All the games I've played have ended before total that) How is that possible? The Austrians and the Germans are busy elsewhere. The Italians should easily be able to capture a lot of VPs.


The Italian units are very weak, start out poorly positioned, are bad at digging trenches, and have to attack into forts/mountains/trenches before they can get into Germany and Austria. For the CP to run over them they just need to pre-position a few troops ready to strike as soon as Italy comes in. A German army and a corps or two in Trent with a few Austrians along the other border is way more than the Italians can handle by themselves. That doesn't mean they'll necesarily take over all of Italy for you. The AP can reinforce with British and French troops, and the further south or west the CP pushes the harder it gets to defend his supply lines. But the potential for big gains is there.
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Johan Lundstrom
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Quote:
* Do I go after France relentlessly or should I try to swithch focus when the trenches start to build up? Perhaps try to strike mother Russia before she gets all her troops on the board?


I'm getting ever more convinced that they key to victory (or at least, a draw...) lies on Russia - attrition in the west means playing the Allies' game. I try to switch to the Eastern front as quickly as possible, although that usually takes longer than I'd like - you have to take out Serbia first, and switch the Austrians to hit Italy hard when they get in the game. Sud Army and SR:ing German corps to the Austrians (even to multiple Austrian stacks) help a lot.

Quote:
* How far into France must I get?


Nowhere, really. I like taking Sedan, but even that isn't critical.

Quote:
* What to do with Turkey? Opening up too many fronts is bad for the CP. Should I try attacking Russia from the south or should I be more afraid of the Brit?


Turkey's job is defence, in my opinion. If they do nothing but hold out the entire game, the Turks have done a great job! The two armies and Kemal may just be enough to hold out. I prefer to put both armies into the Palestinian front, trying to dig in, and try to catch Yudenitch with Kemal. The Bulgarians help out a lot in Turkey - this is their main job, I think.

Quote:
* People keep telling me that the CP always run over Italy. I have yet to experience an Italian entry. (All the games I've played have ended before total that) How is that possible? The Austrians and the Germans are busy elsewhere. The Italians should easily be able to capture a lot of VPs.


It's possible to take out the Serbs, then switch the two Austrian and perhaps one German army to hit the Italians the instant they join. The Italians can't hold out on their own against any kind of determined drive by the Central Powers. A quick intervention by two French armies (this has to be prepared by the French player in advance) is usually enough to stabilize the front (probably an area or two into Italy).

In my experience, the only place you ever manage good aggression with the Italians is in the Balkans, after crossing the Adriatic. Trying for Caporetto will tend to work with about the historical level of success... gulp
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John Margerum
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The only other tip I would add for the CP is to drive your War Status up as fast as possible. It's easy for you to get to limited war. Remember that once you get to total war both the Italy and the Romania cards become an unplayable except as events in the Allies hand. This burden tends to force their play.
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Jason Johns
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John Margerum wrote:
The only other tip I would add for the CP is to drive your War Status up as fast as possible. It's easy for you to get to limited war. Remember that once you get to total war both the Italy and the Romania cards become an unplayable except as events in the Allies hand. This burden tends to force their play.


OK, on that note of "drive up your War Status as fast as possible", does this mean if you can do it on the first turn, do so?

I know that there's a million things to do and never enough time, cards, etc., but is there a time when it's too fast to bring up CP war status? That sure gets rid of alot of good cards.

Also, I think somewhere someone said that newbies (and I still am one at PoG), tend to do alot of OPS, whereas old hands tend to do alot of RP and SR. So, how do you combat an opponent who does alot of OPS?

Thanks,
Jason
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Johan Lundstrom
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Since you can't get to Limited War in turn 1, the use of War Status is limited to opening up the Race to the Sea options witjout playing the card (and is it just me, or is that card seriously poorly constructed? I think it's the one card I've never played as an event.)

And the best defence against someone who performs excessive ops is to defend, reinforce and replace. He'll run out of steam soon enough, and when he does, his fronts will be in shambles. If he focuses on a single country, soaking off his punch by limited counterattacks and countermovements by the others will help. You will likely have to take more ops than you really want to, but as long as you hold out and bring in more forces, you'll win out. Perhaps the best way to halt a drive is by threatening the supply lines, especially inside Russia and Austria (where troop density tends to be far lower than in the west).
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Duncan Gibson
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Akhorahil wrote:
Since you can't get to Limited War in turn 1, the use of War Status is limited to opening up the Race to the Sea options witjout playing the card (and is it just me, or is that card seriously poorly constructed? I think it's the one card I've never played as an event.)


I almost always play Race to the Sea. Its a 3 Op card and the deck average by the time you're at Total War is >3.5. That makes RttS a below average card and worth weeding out of your hand.
Note also that its an event that can be played anytime (ie its easy to play for the event).
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Eric Brosius
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djlg wrote:
I almost always play Race to the Sea. Its a 3 Op card and the deck average by the time you're at Total War is >3.5. That makes RttS a below average card and worth weeding out of your hand.
Note also that its an event that can be played anytime (ie its easy to play for the event).


It's not bad to have a few 3 Ops cards. They're good for SR and at least they keep the 2 Ops cards at bay.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Duncan Gibson, I seriously doubt you will have an average of 3.5 or greater when the Total War cards are shuffled in. See my thread 'The Decks' for the details, but the average will tend to be around 3.2 or lower. Mainly because the high Ops Limited War cards are also those that you have to play to get to Total War.

That average of 3.2 will fall towards 2 as the Total War deck gets played out. So ditching Race To the Sea is a fleeting advantage, not worth the action you have to waste to do it.

More generally, yes play War Status whenever possible, even on turn 1. Assuming you are in a Guns of August game, both sides should be able to get Limited War by the end of turn 2, and that means more cards and better cards. Playing a couple of War Status cards for Ops on turn 1 can leave you in Mobilisation until turn 4 if they then hide on the bottom of the deck when its reshuffled.

Even more generally, I'm going to addres overall strategies for each side once I've finished my studies of specific aspects of the game (Three more fronts to go).
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Matthew Barratt
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The average card value doesn't always fall towards 2 during Total War.

The Allies have no absolute 'must play' 4/4s or 5/5s in their Total War deck, so if they don't attempt to bring the US in then they can cull 1 2/2 (Independent Air Force) and 3 3/4s (Arab Northern Army, British Reinforcements - 5th Army and Greece) from the total war deck thus improving their deck average slightly, even if you play Convoy to cancel U-boats Unleashed then you have still increased your decks average CPs.

The Central Powers have two 4/4s that are in my opinion 'must plays' in the Total War deck (Turkish Reinforcements - AoI Army & German Reinforcements - 17th Army, 18th Army), but they can get rid of 3 2/2s (2 * German Reinforcements - 2 corps & Mustard Gas) and 4 3/4s (German Reinforcements - 14th Army, Turkish Reinforcements - YLD Army, Von Below & Von Hutier). Meaning that they have a greater ability to improve their deck than the Allies do so long as they aren't trying to knock Russia out or breach trench lines with the three 4/4 Kaiserslacht CCs.
 
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