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Subject: [Deck] Unveiling NBN "Never Advance" rss

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Lluluien
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After several BGG users have asked me for advice on playing NBN, I have decided to reveal my as-yet undefeated NBN deck, built around a concept I'm calling "masquerading".


Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
NBN: Making News (Core)


Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (10)
AstroScript Pilot Program (Core) x3
Breaking News (Core) x2
Restructured Datapool (What Lies Ahead) x2
Private Security Force (Core) x3

Asset: (10)
Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus) x3
Snare! (Core) x3
Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) x2
PAD Campaign (Core) x2

ICE: (21)
Data Raven (Core) x3
Tollbooth (Core) x3
TMI (What Lies Ahead) x3
Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) x3
Enigma (Core) x2
Wall of Static (Core) x3
Chimera (Cyber Exodus) x2
Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) x2

Operation: (5)
Closed Accounts (Core) x2
Hedge Fund (Core) x3

Upgrade: (3)
SanSan City Grid (Core) x2
Red Herrings (Core) x1

Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 0
Jinteki: 10
NBN: 31
The Weyland Consortium: 4




The premise of this deck is that any of its Agendas, Economy Assets, Trap Assets, and Upgrades all "masquerade" as one another in this deck. Each of the cards is played face down and left unrezzed (edit: and unadvanced) until at least the current turn (and possibly more) have passed. With ICE and Operations taking up roughly half the deck, that leaves the other half to confuse and induce analysis paralysis in the runner, since each card might be an agenda, a trap, or a high trash-cost upgrade or economy card.

My deckbuilding inspiration for this deck actually came from failed attempts to attain a high win rate with any Jinteki decks I built. With Jinteki's recently popularity, I have encountered several opponents that have made me believe that this IS possible in Jinteki, but speaking for myself, I encountered several different problems with this faction:

1) Advancing cards is expensive in a faction strapped for money already; failing to connect with an advanced Junebug or Aggressive Secretary is a pretty drastic blow not only to economy but tempo as well. Losing the clicks is no small thing for a faction that seems to constantly want to draw and install.

2) Jinteki's traps belong to two seperate classes which are both easy to distinguish from one another. Junebug (and in the future, Ronin) can only hurt the Runner when advanced, while Snare and Edge of World cannot be advanced at all. Junebug and Ronin are further distinguishable from any economic asset or upgrade. Since Jinteki's fast-advance mechanics are limited to Trick of Light, their agendas are mostly split according to the advanced vs not advanced classification as well.

3) These two problems led me to try building a Jinteki deck that had only unadvanceable traps, but that led me to another problem: Jinteki has has a hard time making unadvanced cards feel threatening enough to provoke the Runner into running down a protected fortress, since Braintrust is their only 3/2 agenda and provides no threat beyond its two agenda points when scored from an unadvanced state.


The realization that Braintrust wasn't a threatening enough agenda to score if the runner left it alone immediately made me start exploring the idea of trying a trap deck in NBN, because I believe that AstroScript Pilot Program is the most threatening agenda in the game that can be scored with 3 advancements. NBN shares another quality with Jinteki that is important to a deck intending to use traps: its ICE is fairly porous, meaning that the Runner is able to break into a server at any time they wish, provided they are able to pay the cost.

The key in this deck, like in Jinteki, is to make the Runner question whether or not they are WILLING to break into the server, even if they are ABLE to do so.

Deciding on having only unadvanceable traps in the deck has an important ramification - each of the upgrades and economy assets that I play are then indistinguishable from the traps; that is to say, they "masquerade" as one another. Even though there are only 5 traps in the deck, there are 8 more cards which each threaten to be a trap. 7 out of 8 of these cards (Red Herrings being the odd man out) have a high trash cost, which helps allay another problem in the Jinteki deck: Ambush assets all have 0 trash cost; including them makes R&D and HQ even more vulnerable than it would normally be otherwise.

Going back to AstroScript, these assets now threaten something else as well: "What if it's an Astroscript?" Many Runners are fearful of allowing an NBN deck to score its first AstroScript, since it is so enabling to the remainder of their fast advance strategy. Indeed this deck will often take advantage of fast-advance strategies to close out its games. While Jinteki, in my experience, won't lure a Runner into spending credits chasing down an unadvanced card if it is behind more than one ICE, the opposite seems true with NBN - my opponents are often willing to run ANYTHING that gets installed until the first time they hit Edge of World.

The only two ambushes that actually hurt the Runner from an unadvanced state are Snare! and Edge of World, so including them means we have to have some way of threatening the Runner with a flatline, lest they be ignored. The Private Security Force agenda thus plays an enormously important role in this deck. NBN's Closed Accounts card is often not enough on its own to make tags threatening to a Runner, particularly one which makes little use of resources (though that's often not the case now that Personal Workshop is available). With Private Security Force scored, Data Raven becomes a pretty significant nuisance. With PSF and a landed Edge or Snare, Data Raven becomes one of the most threatening ICE in the game. About 30% of my wins with the deck are secured via flatline. Even against a fully-rigged Runner with a bankroll, the Data Ravens in this deck provide pretty significant defense against repeated central server runs due to their on-encounter tag.

Because the base strategy is to play cards unadvanced, this deck has a significant advantage on other fast advance NBN decks for getting Private Security Force scored - only one fast-advance option (Astroscript token, rezzed SanSan, Psychographics, etc.) needs to be available to score it from unadvanced state, versus two being required to fast-advance it from HQ. That's a pretty important feature of the deck since it becomes extremely dangerous once PSF is scored.

Scoring Restructured Datapool and Private Security Force with no fast advance capabilities in play does violate the base premise of the deck strategy, but it's not altogether uncommon to have a turn available where these can be safely played and advanced once a Closed Accounts has landed. While the current instantiation of the deck does not make use of Psychographics, that would certainly be an option for scoring these as well. I have not been playing with Psychographics, because once Project Beale is released, I intend to replace Restructured Datapool with that card. While Datapool is very threatening when scored in conjunction with PSF, with 5 points scored already, the game can likely be won without that threat.

I have playtested several different variations on this deck, all of which have proven strong; my record with all the variants combined is undefeated in around 20 games. The current decklist here is 11-0. Note that "undefeated" certainly does NOT mean "undefeatable"! I'm sure many of the folks here on BGG that will be reading this post are precisely the folks who could give it its first loss! However, I am convinced that many variations on this new NBN archetype will prove strong enough to be just as viable as the more standard fast advance builds, particularly in the hands of Corp players who are fond of stategies that confuse the Runner.
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Steven Tu
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I play a very similar build, getting that cheap to run tower out makes great potential for mind games. Putting things down with upgrades makes hitting edge of world almost easy. Reading the runner and making them go for things is nuts.

I've already said elsewhere, jinteki traps are better out of jinteki but at least now with false lead things are slightly better for them
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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Very nice idea. Well done. I guess however this deck suffers a lot against people running exposures?
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Lluluien
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DbZer0 wrote:
Very nice idea. Well done. I guess however this deck suffers a lot against people running exposures?


Not as much as you might think, since a lot of time what you're putting into play is an economy card that you will just shortly trash and replace with something else for them to wonder about. That's one reason there are 3 Marked Accounts in the deck and only 2 PAD Campaigns. They tend not to run very long if my opponent shows no willingness to go hunt them down themselves to trash, and I've wasted less money on a card I don't pay to rez.

I've played it with Private Contracts as well; this is a great card for the deck too, since you can install it in your tower and use it up quickly to make room for something else, if you're opposed to just trashing the card yourself. I would suggest to a player that isn't willing to be pretty mercenary with throwing those cards away that this might not be the deck for them, though.

All that said, I've not played the deck against someone running Lemuria. Repeated use of exposure beyond 3 Infiltrations could definitely give it a hard time.


Edit: As far as counters go, I'd say the worst thing that can happen to this deck is to have one of the Edge of World cards discovered in HQ or R&D before it gets put in play. That sometimes has made the Runner far more cautious than s/he would normally be about running down the cards than normal, making it harder to land the other Edge.

That's a pretty important reason to have to upgrades too. Like Tu said, putting a second card in the server seems to make all the Runners forget that the SECOND card could be an upgrade (going on top of a trap) instead of the other way around.

On the other hand, if you get SanSan rezzed, you're best off if you can get them to believe EVERY card that you put in there is a trap. I'm sure you two know this already, but for the other readers that don't: the Runner must access ALL cards in a remote server if they access one (bottom left of page 18). That's right punk. If you want to trash my SanSan, you're going to earn it with 3 brain damage. Better hope the meat-mercs don't find you afterward!
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Lluluien
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lluluien wrote:


I think this bit is worth commenting on too. A lot of people say you shouldn't run 3 Snares, since it leaves the Runner wondering where the third one is if they never see it.

In 20 games, I've never had all 3 of them in Archives, and on top of that, it's important to remember that most of the time when the Runner hits one of these in my deck, they did it after already taking a tag from Data Raven. When PSF is scored and that happens, it's generally GG.
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Lluluien
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DbZer0 wrote:
Very nice idea. Well done. I guess however this deck suffers a lot against people running exposures?


Hey while I have your attention in this thread, I should've said this first!

Thank you so much for the OCTGN game definitions for A:NR. It's very well-made, and the speed with which you keep it updated is amazing.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
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Solid Oak Shelf
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Beautiful. I'm building this now.
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Ben Benjamin

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How many remotes do you generally find yourself putting into play most games? I ask because you're running permanent economy cards and not all that much ice. I feel like it'd be hard to have enough ice to cover all your bases if you want to represent stuff like edge of world, especially against Criminal or Noise, where you have to think about covering archives as well.
 
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Solid Oak Shelf
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Yeah. Why aren't you running Melange?
 
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Steven Tu
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solidoakshelh wrote:
Yeah. Why aren't you running Melange?


You don't really want to end up spending all your turn to take money - this deck needs tricks to do things. Plus it doesn't defend very well - the defence should be there to bluff, and letting the runner run all over may not be the best idea.

That said, this deck is built sturdier and less tricky than my version so it may work. I just especially don't like the super low trash cost.

If I'm going to blow all my ice to make the runner run, it better be for a better reason than to get a melange trashed... I prefer Red Herring, Ash, or Edge
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Philip von Doomula
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I'd love to see the look on a Runner's face when they hit Edge of World in a 3 ICE deep Remote Server. They wouldn't even expect it from NBN...
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Nathaniel Kernes
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I have been running more or less this deck for the last few weeks. The problem I keep running into is there are vary few ways to protect your R&D early game so you are open to massive Medium hits.

I have more than once seen people just ignore tags and run wild smashing into my deck aiming to win before I can get something to hit them with.

Imp + Demo runs stop most of my chances on getting a nice card to use with those Tags and on my turns my opens are more or less lose my turn to drop their virus counters or try and find some money so I even have a chance to get more ICE up or trigger a Snare!.

The top Runner decks right now are focused on R&D pressure/trash and this deck is highly weak to it from what I have seen, it's almost leading me to change to HB even tho I love NBN.
 
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Lluluien
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LordNat wrote:
I have been running more or less this deck for the last few weeks. The problem I keep running into is there are vary few ways to protect your R&D early game so you are open to massive Medium hits.

I have more than once seen people just ignore tags and run wild smashing into my deck aiming to win before I can get something to hit them with.

Imp + Demo runs stop most of my chances on getting a nice card to use with those Tags and on my turns my opens are more or less lose my turn to drop their virus counters or try and find some money so I even have a chance to get more ICE up or trigger a Snare!.

The top Runner decks right now are focused on R&D pressure/trash and this deck is highly weak to it from what I have seen, it's almost leading me to change to HB even tho I love NBN.


I haven't run into that at all with this deck, because the best defense in the game that I have found against Medium R&D digs is Data Raven and Tollbooth, since no amount of money will stop you from getting hit with their on-encounter ability. Since those cards are in-faction for NBN, and since Data Raven is more of a threat in this deck than most others, I have less trouble with that in this deck, rather than more. This is particularly true once the Runner knows that the deck is capable of killing them with Snare.

Will tags stop them from doing this to you once? Probably not, so if the game is close and the gambit play happens, they might win. If they don't though, keeping all those tags will likely mean they're done next turn.
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Lluluien
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Quarashi wrote:
I'd love to see the look on a Runner's face when they hit Edge of World in a 3 ICE deep Remote Server. They wouldn't even expect it from NBN...


This factors in to the R&D question too. If you land a 3-ICE Edge, then they have to spend 1 click every turn just making sure that a single Snare! doesn't flatline them.
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jediloser wrote:
How many remotes do you generally find yourself putting into play most games? I ask because you're running permanent economy cards and not all that much ice. I feel like it'd be hard to have enough ice to cover all your bases if you want to represent stuff like edge of world, especially against Criminal or Noise, where you have to think about covering archives as well.


That depends a lot on the behavior of the Runner I'm playing against. I only normally have one defended server. If I need the money and don't think the Runner can afford to take out undefended economy cards, I'll put them in play undefended to snowball an advantage.

If they don't run them at all because they think it's a waste of a click to look at a card I'm going to have to rez to use anyway, I start playing the shell game with them. The only game I was in significant danger of losing I turned around by scoring my first Astroscript naked while my main silo was empty. I waited until they were broke, then installed Astroscript outside the silo. Why would I put an agenda outside when I had a perfectly good server to defend it with, right?

Predictably, the Shaper I was playing took 8 credits, then I scored Astroscript, and snowballed from there.

Keep in mind though that one of the principle uses of the economy cards are just to represent a trap - as I said in an earlier post, if throwing away economy cards bothers you, then you should probably switch the PAD Campaigns for Private Contracts. Most of the money in this deck comes from Popup Window and Caduceus though, not the drip cards, and as a measure for how much money is required to run it successfully, I probably only rez SanSan in about... 20% of my games.

That is one thing to factor into playing this deck. You have to be pretty adaptable to the person playing the Runner, and it plays slightly differently against each of the Runner factions.
 
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LordNat wrote:
The problem I keep running into is there are vary few ways to protect your R&D early game so you are open to massive Medium hits.


I suspect if you're having issues with this early, it's because you're running too much trace ICE, and not enough Wall of Static and Enigma. The NBN identity as it stands is almost a trap - if you have to run 4-5 traces in a turn, it might as well not even be there for all the good it does you.

An early Wall of Static is enough on its own to stop a Medium strike on R&D.
 
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LordNat wrote:
I have more than once seen people just ignore tags and run wild smashing into my deck aiming to win before I can get something to hit them with.


If you're running this specific deck (or something that doesn't punish tags other than PSF/Closed Accounts) that's why people aren't scared of tags; what's the worst you're going to do with them? Double down on that sentiment if they've got Magnum Opus; they really don't care or have a reason to. If you manage to score a PSF early, then you've actually got a threat with those tags at least.

While Data Raven is a good deterrent because of its powerful ability, is it worth it in a deck that only has PSF and Closed Accounts to make it a threat? The PSF threat vanishes unless you can stack multiples of tags on someone, and Closed Accounts is countered by Opus/recurring creds/Stimhack (kinda). It's definitely a great support ICE though, since someone foolish enough to go through it gives you a guaranteed tag to CA them whenever you like.
 
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lluluien wrote:
I suspect if you're having issues with this early, it's because you're running too much trace ICE, and not enough Wall of Static and Enigma. The NBN identity as it stands is almost a trap - if you have to run 4-5 traces in a turn, it might as well not even be there for all the good it does you.


High base strength for NBN traces is still important; if you're giving a runner 5 traces a turn, and they've got a lot of link, that's not good.

It's one of the reasons I like to run Hunter over Matrix Analyzer; the tag will fuel my combo or sap 2 credits from the runner; Matrix Analyzer essentially extends my turn with an advancement for 2 credits (1 to rez it, 1 to advance)...the tag is essentially a bonus on the ICE's main purpose.
 
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ignisphaseone wrote:
LordNat wrote:
I have more than once seen people just ignore tags and run wild smashing into my deck aiming to win before I can get something to hit them with.


If you're running this specific deck (or something that doesn't punish tags other than PSF/Closed Accounts) that's why people aren't scared of tags; what's the worst you're going to do with them?


Well, there are certain reasonable assumptions based on what they've seen. If I were running against a deck like this, and hadn't yet encountered all three of the OOF cards, I'd be seriously mindful of the possibility that there's a Scorch or two in there for backup. (Though admittedly it's not as tag-heavy as one would expect such a deck to be--concerns about Too Much Trace notwithstanding, maybe a Draco or two would help to push the bluff a little more effectively.)
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Steve
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That's a good deck especially since it seems that a lot of people underrate both NBN and exposure cards.
 
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Just realized that a 2-ICE edge of world makes everyone a scorched target, but also makes PSF lock a 100% win condition. At least until Beale, this is a new include for me replacing ASH.
 
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David Jensen
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Excellent idea.

AstroScript is the most deadly of all the 3 advance agendas in the game and this deck capitalizes on it. There are some other strong 3 point agendas (HB - WC?) but! they require an extra counter.

The other neat trick (and I'm ashamed for never putting it together myself) is the trap on the SanSan. Its been a long theory of mine that trapping a SanSan is excellent; I never thought to put it on Edge of World.

Also, Closed Accounts or not; most (dare I convince the reader) strong players avoid tags against NBN until they've seen the OOF influence. That is to say; even the threat of tags has carries its own weight.

I'm not surprised you've gone flawless with this deck at the time of posting. It's a great change of pace deck.

I'd love to play it sometime.
 
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i like this deck, its quite similar to one ive been playing around with.

edge of the world and PSF are win when combined!

1 to 2 copies of free lancer play well with this too. there are lots of good resources out now!
 
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ignisphaseone wrote:
Just realized that a 2-ICE edge of world makes everyone a scorched target, but also makes PSF lock a 100% win condition. At least until Beale, this is a new include for me replacing ASH.


This is why I mentioned earlier that Data Raven was such good defense on R&D, especially when paired with Snares lurking in there. You mentioned that PSF is really only threatening if you can get multiple tags on the runner, but that's what Snare is in this deck, assuming there's a Data Raven on the server they're stealing it from.

Don't underestimate the power of using the Never Advance idea to save yourself a click on scoring Breaking News either, particularly when you have an Astroscript token. Imagine Runner has 4 cards (not uncommon for them to install or play an event prior to running), hits a Snare on the run, has one click left, and trashes the tag. You score Breaking News with a click + an Astroscript token, then click them twice to flatline. This scenario is pretty common against this deck, and note this setup doesn't even depend on a landed Edge. It's almost trivially simple to kill them if an Edge is landed and a PSF is scored.

You'll note the continuing theme of the importance of having PSF scored in this deck. I've often given the advice to folks looking to construct an NBN deck that they ought to consider running 3 copies of PSF even in a fast advance deck, because it IS, in fact, sufficient tag punishment, though people seem to underestimate how valuable it is (at least in NBN - I can't give it the same recommendation in other factions simply because I haven't playtested them there).

Edit: Incidentally, I have considered 1 variation in this deck where 1 Snare is removed and 3 Aggressive Negotiations are added (only 14 influence is currently being used) since the agendas provide a lot of the threat from this deck besides just the points they represent. I haven't playtested that idea yet though, so I can't say whether or not it works.
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kobold47 wrote:
ignisphaseone wrote:
LordNat wrote:
I have more than once seen people just ignore tags and run wild smashing into my deck aiming to win before I can get something to hit them with.


If you're running this specific deck (or something that doesn't punish tags other than PSF/Closed Accounts) that's why people aren't scared of tags; what's the worst you're going to do with them?


Well, there are certain reasonable assumptions based on what they've seen. If I were running against a deck like this, and hadn't yet encountered all three of the OOF cards, I'd be seriously mindful of the possibility that there's a Scorch or two in there for backup. (Though admittedly it's not as tag-heavy as one would expect such a deck to be--concerns about Too Much Trace notwithstanding, maybe a Draco or two would help to push the bluff a little more effectively.)


An earlier version of this deck did run Draco, but every time I play this card, I find having strength 3-4 doesn't seem to do much more to help me rather than strength 0, and having to spend 4-5 credits to rez the card and then additionally having to have credits left over to make the trace threatening really just doesn't work in practice.

If I assume that the runner has no link, then Caduceus not only will stop them but will normally provide me money, and TMI is a pretty significant deterrent as well if you can get it rezzed cheaply. If the runner DOES have link, then Draco probably isn't helping me anyway because it will be too expensive to use. That leaves early game at 0 strength being the primary means to use Draco, but the tag doesn't do me much good until PSF is scored.

Since Draco normally was most effective at stopping the runner early game, it got switched to Chimera instead. I find Chimera to be more reliable in testing, and it comes with another advantage. Runners always think they're so clever putting out a Crypsis to frag Chimera...

...until they hit an Edge of World with it
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