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Subject: [Deck] Unveiling NBN "Never Advance" rss

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Aaron Smith
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EluThingol wrote:


My advice: stop playing against Criminals.


If only... I'm still hoping to play a turn 1 sweeps week against Andromeda though. Hasn't happened yet, but someday...SOMEDAY!!!
 
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Michael McLaughlin
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MinisterOfPropaganda wrote:
EluThingol wrote:


My advice: stop playing against Criminals.


If only... I'm still hoping to play a turn 1 sweeps week against Andromeda though. Hasn't happened yet, but someday...SOMEDAY!!!


OK, you're just going to hate me now, but three store championships ago, I lived the dream versus Adromeda:

Click 1: Sweeps Week

Click 2: Sweeps Week

Click 3: Install Tollbooth on HQ

Remaining hand: SanSan, Eli 1.0, PAD Campaign

I won that thing in about eight minutes.
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Grzegorz Pijas
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My friend in our first SC in first game vs Andromeda had 3..GG
 
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Aaron Smith
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Wosho wrote:
My friend in our first SC in first game vs Andromeda had 3..GG


I hate both of you.
 
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John F
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I got Sweeps Week off Andromeda first turn twice in my Store Champ. It was ...glorious.
 
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Aaron Smith
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I finally got a sweeps week on turn one vs. Andromeda! I rezzed a tollbooth on HQ the next turn. HA! In your face Andy!! Aaaaand a couple turns later out comes the Femme and Account Siphon train just kept runnin' over me.
 
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Michael McLaughlin
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MinisterOfPropaganda wrote:
I finally got a sweeps week on turn one vs. Andromeda! I rezzed a tollbooth on HQ the next turn. HA! In your face Andy!! Aaaaand a couple turns later out comes the Femme and Account Siphon train just kept runnin' over me.


Dang. Well, I'm sure it felt great for one shining moment.
 
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Jason Hamner
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Honestly, I don't think "turn 1 Tollbooth over HQ" is really the best play against Criminals... it just gives them a Femme/Emergency Shutdown target. Andromeda has a pretty good chance of having the Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown combo in her opening hand.
 
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Michael McLaughlin
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JWHamner wrote:
Honestly, I don't think "turn 1 Tollbooth over HQ" is really the best play against Criminals... it just gives them a Femme/Emergency Shutdown target. Andromeda has a pretty good chance of having the Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown combo in her opening hand.


Well, it's better than most of the alternatives. It's always easy to dismiss something as not literally being the best imaginable play. Every decent piece of high-cost ICE constitutes a good target for ES or Femme.
 
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David Jackman
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EluThingol wrote:
JWHamner wrote:
Honestly, I don't think "turn 1 Tollbooth over HQ" is really the best play against Criminals... it just gives them a Femme/Emergency Shutdown target. Andromeda has a pretty good chance of having the Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown combo in her opening hand.


Well, it's better than most of the alternatives. It's always easy to dismiss something as not literally being the best imaginable play. Every decent piece of high-cost ICE constitutes a good target for ES or Femme.


rezzing two ice on HQ, say bastion and draco or viper is better than rezzing a single tollbooth. Much much better.
 
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Michael McLaughlin
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Saan wrote:
EluThingol wrote:
JWHamner wrote:
Honestly, I don't think "turn 1 Tollbooth over HQ" is really the best play against Criminals... it just gives them a Femme/Emergency Shutdown target. Andromeda has a pretty good chance of having the Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown combo in her opening hand.


Well, it's better than most of the alternatives. It's always easy to dismiss something as not literally being the best imaginable play. Every decent piece of high-cost ICE constitutes a good target for ES or Femme.


rezzing two ice on HQ, say bastion and draco or viper is better than rezzing a single tollbooth. Much much better.


Yes, I know that.
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Mike G
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Saan wrote:
EluThingol wrote:
JWHamner wrote:
Honestly, I don't think "turn 1 Tollbooth over HQ" is really the best play against Criminals... it just gives them a Femme/Emergency Shutdown target. Andromeda has a pretty good chance of having the Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown combo in her opening hand.


Well, it's better than most of the alternatives. It's always easy to dismiss something as not literally being the best imaginable play. Every decent piece of high-cost ICE constitutes a good target for ES or Femme.


rezzing two ice on HQ, say bastion and draco or viper is better than rezzing a single tollbooth. Much much better.


In that situation, I'd probably leave the Draco unrezzed until the Syphon came.
 
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Aaron Smith
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JWHamner wrote:
Honestly, I don't think "turn 1 Tollbooth over HQ" is really the best play against Criminals... it just gives them a Femme/Emergency Shutdown target. Andromeda has a pretty good chance of having the Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown combo in her opening hand.


Yeah, in retrospect, I think I was just flush with ALL THAT CASH and it just went to my head. The fact that it was a terrible play is directly evident because it getting femmed is *exactly* what happened.
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Jesse M
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Another store championship win for Never Advance. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (8)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (5)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••••
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (7)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Interns (Mala Tempora)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
1x Hive (Double Time) ••
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
2x Quandary (Double Time)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (5)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••• •
2x Dracō (What Lies Ahead)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

tournament report here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1149258/six-feet-under-games...
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Henry Silver
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I just took a version of Never Advance to my store championship and while I didn't win, I did go 4-0 as corp. Only my horrible runner play kept me back from the top bracket.


NBN Never Advance

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (10)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
1x Private Security Force (Core Set)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (9)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (4)
2x Bernice Mai (Humanity's Shadow)
2x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (5)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)

Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
2x Ice Wall (Core Set) ••

Code Gate (8)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
3x Quandary (Double Time)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (8)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••• •
2x Data Raven (Core Set)
3x Dracō (What Lies Ahead)

11 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


No one ever trashed my drip economy which was a horrible mistake on their part. Every game I managed to rez a marked accounts or a pad and runner economy just couldn't keep up even with Kati Jones and Magnum Opus. With the extra money, I could throw taxing ice on my centrals and start building a sansan remote and once the sansan was online, it was very difficult to lose. Bernice Mai was mostly used as a bluff on my part as people usually thought she was a sansan so I managed to bankrupt a few runners that way. Never used closed accounts in a single game as the runners were scared of keeping tags due to heavy scorched earth play in the tournament.

If I was to do this again, I think I'd swap the data ravens for snares. I only ended up using the data ravens once and Draco just seemed better every time I had it. All in all, I'm happy with this deck and hope to take it to another championship as soon as I improve my runner deck.
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Liang Zhong
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I ended second on the Liège Chronos Protocol with this deck on the corp side. I haven't dropped a single match and ended with 5-0. I was also pretty proud of myself when I beat the tournament winner Whizzard deck on round 4.

Pro-tip: If you're playing against Whizzard, protecting your Marked/Pad with a single popup is a huge deterrent. Whizzard really don't want to either pay 5 for yog then 1/2 to trash your econ asset or give me one cred and pay 2/3 to trash it. The move who made me "win" the game against Whizzard was scoring an Astroscript behind a really shitty server: Draco / Eli 1.0 / Popup + Ash. Not the kind of server you really want to make to score an agenda but in the end, it worked well and I was able to chain my astro into another astro and a beale. Since I've already scored a Breaking News early on, I feel that the first astroscript pretty much won me the game.

NBN NA - Taxman

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (8)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (5)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••••
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (8)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (4)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) ••
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)
2x Viper (Cyber Exodus) ••

Sentry (6)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••• •
2x Dracō (What Lies Ahead)
1x Rototurret (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
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Mike G
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Big fan of Never Advance since I started playing back when Cyber Exodus was the new hotness. Great to see this thread still alive and kicking.

Lately, I've had trouble with Parasite Recursion decks. Any suggestions?
 
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Michael McLaughlin
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Korror wrote:
I just took a version of Never Advance to my store championship and while I didn't win, I did go 4-0 as corp. Only my horrible runner play kept me back from the top bracket.


NBN Never Advance

No one ever trashed my drip economy which was a horrible mistake on their part. Every game I managed to rez a marked accounts or a pad and runner economy just couldn't keep up even with Kati Jones and Magnum Opus.


People who sit there and let the corp gain 10 credits from a PAD Campaign just kill me. I see it all the time and it's just incredible.

One thing I will say about your list is that I'm not sure I understand the influence spent on Ice Wall. Wraparound accomplishes much the same thing, and in some cases a whole lot more. That is to say, it costs the same to get in either one with a fracter (or a Knight). Obviously there are some discreet situations where you can get more from an Ice Wall, but I'd rather have a couple spare influence points for Vipers or whatever else. I guess it also depends on what you're seeing as its main use case, which for me was always just "cheap early-game ice which is sometimes also good against AI."
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Henry Silver
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EluThingol wrote:
Korror wrote:
I just took a version of Never Advance to my store championship and while I didn't win, I did go 4-0 as corp. Only my horrible runner play kept me back from the top bracket.


NBN Never Advance

No one ever trashed my drip economy which was a horrible mistake on their part. Every game I managed to rez a marked accounts or a pad and runner economy just couldn't keep up even with Kati Jones and Magnum Opus.


People who sit there and let the corp gain 10 credits from a PAD Campaign just kill me. I see it all the time and it's just incredible.

One thing I will say about your list is that I'm not sure I understand the influence spent on Ice Wall. Wraparound accomplishes much the same thing, and in some cases a whole lot more. That is to say, it costs the same to get in either one with a fracter (or a Knight). Obviously there are some discreet situations where you can get more from an Ice Wall, but I'd rather have a couple spare influence points for Vipers or whatever else. I guess it also depends on what you're seeing as its main use case, which for me was always just "cheap early-game ice which is sometimes also good against AI."


Yea, letting a rezed pad or two just sit there is basically giving this deck enough money to do anything it wants.

As for the ice wall vs wraparound, I had a very simple reason for going with ice wall. I didn't have any wraparounds. I've since picked up Fear and Loathing and replaced the icewalls with wraparounds. If they had the same influence costs, I could see maybe using icewall but for 0 influence, wraparound is the clear winner.
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Michael McLaughlin
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Korror wrote:
EluThingol wrote:
Korror wrote:
I just took a version of Never Advance to my store championship and while I didn't win, I did go 4-0 as corp. Only my horrible runner play kept me back from the top bracket.


NBN Never Advance

No one ever trashed my drip economy which was a horrible mistake on their part. Every game I managed to rez a marked accounts or a pad and runner economy just couldn't keep up even with Kati Jones and Magnum Opus.


People who sit there and let the corp gain 10 credits from a PAD Campaign just kill me. I see it all the time and it's just incredible.

One thing I will say about your list is that I'm not sure I understand the influence spent on Ice Wall. Wraparound accomplishes much the same thing, and in some cases a whole lot more. That is to say, it costs the same to get in either one with a fracter (or a Knight). Obviously there are some discreet situations where you can get more from an Ice Wall, but I'd rather have a couple spare influence points for Vipers or whatever else. I guess it also depends on what you're seeing as its main use case, which for me was always just "cheap early-game ice which is sometimes also good against AI."


Yea, letting a rezed pad or two just sit there is basically giving this deck enough money to do anything it wants.

As for the ice wall vs wraparound, I had a very simple reason for going with ice wall. I didn't have any wraparounds. I've since picked up Fear and Loathing and replaced the icewalls with wraparounds. If they had the same influence costs, I could see maybe using icewall but for 0 influence, wraparound is the clear winner.


Seems like a good reason.

Of course, having run against the deck a thousand times, the truth of the matter is that Marked Accounts and PAD Campaign can be back-breaking to trash, especially in a deck with SanSan. The only thing that can keep up is Magnum Opus, which is just one reason I'll definitely be piloting an Opus deck at regionals.
 
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Peter Hopkins
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What do you all think about Mental Health Clinic in Never Advance...? I realise it's only 3 to trash, but it's free to rez and the +1 hand size for the opponent naturally combos well with Sweeps Week!

I ended up cutting a Caduceus and something else to sneak a couple in, it's worked well for me.
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Jack Bennett
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unitled wrote:
What do you all think about Mental Health Clinic in Never Advance...? I realise it's only 3 to trash, but it's free to rez and the +1 hand size for the opponent naturally combos well with Sweeps Week!

I ended up cutting a Caduceus and something else to sneak a couple in, it's worked well for me.


I haven't posted my deck here in a while, so it's evolved a bit, but I have been playing with 2x Clinics as well and have liked them a lot. I swapped them out with the 2 PADs to see which I like better. I kept 2x Marked as well because I like the trash cost.

With PADs and Markeds, if I use them as bait, then I often can't get money out of them before I'm ready to install over them. They both will take a few turns to pay off, so I rarely rez them if I used them as a "waste of time" trap. With clinic, if the bait doesn't work (or they don't trash it) it's still worth rezzing for the single bit before installing over it. Or, if you're not quite ready to install yet, it's a net gain much quicker.

And yes, once in the last tournament I did SW for 6, which was great!
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Michael McLaughlin
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pusherman42 wrote:
unitled wrote:
What do you all think about Mental Health Clinic in Never Advance...? I realise it's only 3 to trash, but it's free to rez and the +1 hand size for the opponent naturally combos well with Sweeps Week!

I ended up cutting a Caduceus and something else to sneak a couple in, it's worked well for me.


I haven't posted my deck here in a while, so it's evolved a bit, but I have been playing with 2x Clinics as well and have liked them a lot. I swapped them out with the 2 PADs to see which I like better. I kept 2x Marked as well because I like the trash cost.

With PADs and Markeds, if I use them as bait, then I often can't get money out of them before I'm ready to install over them. They both will take a few turns to pay off, so I rarely rez them if I used them as a "waste of time" trap. With clinic, if the bait doesn't work (or they don't trash it) it's still worth rezzing for the single bit before installing over it. Or, if you're not quite ready to install yet, it's a net gain much quicker.

And yes, once in the last tournament I did SW for 6, which was great!


You should of course do what works best for you, but speaking for myself I'd have a hard time making the necessary cuts to come up with 4 influence.

Is it really better to have something that doesn't accomplish the deck's goal of forcing the runner to pay a heavy trashing tax, while also draining you of needed influence for taxing ICE like Eli or Caduceus? Seems like a step backward on two separate fronts. But then again, I haven't played with it so I'm not here to dismiss it out of hand. That would just be my concern up front.
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Jack Bennett
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Definitely a fair point. I had two extra influence floating around that I wasn't using for anything NEEDED and kept trying different things. The other one I made up by going down to 2x Caduceus, but that was a VERY tough call and I'm not 100% sold on it.

For the "goal" of the deck, the difference between 3 or 4 hasn't been huge in terms of trash cost (5 scares people), at least in my games so far. Most of the credits lost by the runner are from the ICE in front of it, so just having SOMETHING to install face-down works to that goal.

It replaced 2x PADs. So if the runner hits it and plans to trash assets, they are out one less credit. But if they don't, I'm up at least one extra credit over if it'd been a PAD (assuming I plan to install over them next turn), or more (if I wait a couple turns before I install). Since I run some big ice, having a few extra credits is great, especially if the card I used to get them pulls them through a Tollbooth.

All that said, you're not wrong and I'm not 100% sold on them over PADs. I played them in a few matches, and won one tournament with them. Losing 1 Caduceus may not be worth it, but that'll take more testing. Overall I found myself a bit richer, with the same amount of power to coax the runner through taxing ice. Given that, their inclusion is probably pretty deck-dependent, not an auto-include by any means.

But time will tell if I keep them in! I appreciate your thoughts!
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Dan Kaiser
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All,

Has anyone else experimented with Caprice Nisei in never advance? Coupled with Ash and Jackson Howard, running the remote would become an exercise in frustration. Granted, the influence cost is steep, but Caprice is a great card, and fits the never advance playstyle for taxing the runner. If playing Breaking News, the influence could be as follows:

2 Caprice Nisei (x4)
2 Ash (x2)
3 Eli (x1)

The biggest drawback of Caprice that I see is giving up Caduceus. Another consideration is her trash cost of 1. Thoughts?
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