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Subject: [Deck] Unveiling NBN "Never Advance" rss

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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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I think the biggest drawback is losing 3rd Ash. I will definitely test the 3x Ash, 3x Eli, 2x Caprice set with the 17 inf NBN ID (if it turns out real), but my gut feeling is that the 3x Eli, 3x Ash, 2x Biotic Labor will work better (and generally an NBN deck should import Biotic over Caprice).
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Peter Hopkins
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I was wondering about this deck when I saw the spoilers for the new NBN ID. I tend to play out assets horizontally, occasionally baiting a server with a high cost trashable asset, so this looks like a good fit. Anyone else have thoughts?

Also, would Midway Station Grid fit in as an upgrade on a Central? It fits together with Eli quite well, meaning they'll almost always take the click hit to get through, and works very well with smaller code gates to keep the tax up even against Yog.0.

hsiale wrote:
I think the biggest drawback is losing 3rd Ash. I will definitely test the 3x Ash, 3x Eli, 2x Caprice set with the 17 inf NBN ID (if it turns out real), but my gut feeling is that the 3x Eli, 3x Ash, 2x Biotic Labor will work better (and generally an NBN deck should import Biotic over Caprice).


I hadn't thought about using Biotic in a taxing/never advance deck... Isn't the point that agendas are put out disguised as assets? With Ash etc. helping to prevent them being stolen. How do you normally use them?
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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unitled wrote:
I hadn't thought about using Biotic in a taxing/never advance deck... Isn't the point that agendas are put out disguised as assets? With Ash etc. helping to prevent them being stolen. How do you normally use them?
The point, as always, is to win the game And having extra ways to do this is always good. Never Advance decks play SanSan City Grid and often use it to score their first Astroscript out of hand (so that they can threaten Astro chaining to make the runner lose cash attempting R&D lock). Doing the same via Biotic Labor helps as well. IMO it will be better to import 2 Biotic over 2 Caprice, still I'm not sure if 2 Biotic will be better than some traps or better ice.
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Daniel Honig
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Have people experimented with Never Advance using Near-Earth Hub? If so, how is it?

Traces definitely are worse, but the free draw and extra influence is strong...
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Jesse M
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Andarel wrote:
Have people experimented with Never Advance using Near-Earth Hub? If so, how is it?

Traces definitely are worse, but the free draw and extra influence is strong...

It lacks good taxing sentries. Caduceus and to a lesser extent Draco make Making News a better choice for taxing NBN decks right now IMO.
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Brodie
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Andarel wrote:
Have people experimented with Never Advance using Near-Earth Hub? If so, how is it?

Traces definitely are worse, but the free draw and extra influence is strong...


You need to create a new server in order to trigger NEH's free draw, so I don't think it has especially noteworthy synergy with Never Advance.
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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trebormills wrote:
I think it can mill your deck for about 40 cards by playing virus cards and then recurring virus cards over and over

How many turns does it take uninterrupted? How many turns if interrupted by Closed Accounts from time to time?
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Andrew Keddie
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hsiale wrote:
trebormills wrote:
I think it can mill your deck for about 40 cards by playing virus cards and then recurring virus cards over and over

How many turns does it take uninterrupted? How many turns if interrupted by Closed Accounts from time to time?


How are you going to land the tag?
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Daniel Honig
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Breaking News, probably.
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Andrew Keddie
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Andarel wrote:
Breaking News, probably.


That makes sense.

Of course, if the deck is running Cyberfeeders and/or Sahasrara (it should be) then Closed Accounts isn't going to help very much.
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Andrew
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I played a couple of Netrunner matches with the core set cards for the first time a couple of days ago and really enjoyed the traps on the Jinteki deck as well as the overall NBN gameplay and thought it would be really cool to combine both.

Did a little digging and, what do you know, the archetype already exists (existed?) and I came across this thread.

So I noticed the decklist and the thread itself dates back to a couple of years ago so I was wondering if this Never Advance archetype is still valid and where can I find an updated decklist to take for a test drive.

Thanks a bunch!
 
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Bryan Blumklotz
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Never advance has been eclipsed by NBN Rush decks. Why put an agenda out if you can just score it from hand.

Never Advance was a reaction to the Corps being very poor in comparison to the Runners, something that is no longer true with the wide assortment of income the Corps can generate.

Never Advance still exists but less so as a deck but more as a play style. Elements are used in all kinds of decks these days.

Best thing you can do is experiment with the newer cards and see if you can make it work.



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Jesse M
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Saracenus wrote:
Why put an agenda out if you can just score it from hand.

Because it's fun.

Never Advance is still plenty strong. Two cards hurt it a lot from H&P in Legwork and Security Testing, but Andromeda and Kate are also moving away from RDI a bit, which was always very strong against a taxing RnD so this deck type is still very competitive.

Additionally, Fast Track is a big help to this deck both in exploiting early windows created by over extending runners, and for quickly finishing out games before the runner can lock down RnD.
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Bryan Blumklotz
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Jesse I know it's fun, I was making a rhetorical flourish to make my point on why Never Advance is not the powerhouse it was.

If you read all of the many, many pages of this thread you will notice that I am one of the big proponents of this strategy. I took a Tag Flood Never Advance deck to a Top 8 finish in a 2013 Regional when HB Fast Advance was the "smart" choice (read dominant choice).

I have drifted away from playing NBN (because Rush decks bored me) and I have used many of the skills I learned playing NBN Never Advance in my Jinteki, HB and even Weyland explorations. I will say that my Jinteki RP deck is heavily influenced by it.
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Grzegorz Pijas
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I have created a deck based on the concept, and it have like 15:0 both on octgn and in real life tournaments.
Vs nbn you need to check everything, you cant allow them to score astro without sansan/biotic. So i have exploited it and i think it works really great
 
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Andrew
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Can anyone point me towards a deck list with all the up to date cards?

I'm a terrible deck builder so it would be nice to have a starting point to try this archetype out.

Thanks in advance!
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Geoff Speare
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Here's mine, as of Double Time. I have zero Netrunner cred - I haven't entered any tournaments let alone done well in them. This is built mainly from following this thread and is intended to spur discussion.

Never Advance

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (10)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Private Security Force (Core Set)
1x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (11)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
3x Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus)
3x Snare! (Core Set) ••••• •

Upgrade (3)
1x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••
2x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (7)
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
1x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)
2x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (6)
1x Bastion (Creation and Control)
1x Paper Wall (Mala Tempora)
2x TMI (What Lies Ahead)
1x Wall of Static (Core Set)
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (6)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (6)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••• •
1x Dracō (What Lies Ahead)
1x Flare (Future Proof)
1x Swordsman (Second Thoughts) •

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
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Jesse M
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Saracenus wrote:
Jesse I know it's fun, I was making a rhetorical flourish to make my point on why Never Advance is not the powerhouse it was.

If you read all of the many, many pages of this thread you will notice that I am one of the big proponents of this strategy. I took a Tag Flood Never Advance deck to a Top 8 finish in a 2013 Regional when HB Fast Advance was the "smart" choice (read dominant choice).

I have drifted away from playing NBN (because Rush decks bored me) and I have used many of the skills I learned playing NBN Never Advance in my Jinteki, HB and even Weyland explorations. I will say that my Jinteki RP deck is heavily influenced by it.


Sorry, wasn't trying to be snarky. I've read the entire thread, and appreciate your posts, but I just don't agree that Never Advance is not a powerhouse anymore. I took it to regionals fully expecting to get blown out but it performed as well as it ever has, especially vs people that weren't expecting it because Midseasons and Biotic are more popular at the moment.

Other corps are much better than they were in the past but that doesn't mean Never Advance has lost any power!
 
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Daniel Wray
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jerklin wrote:
Saracenus wrote:
Jesse I know it's fun, I was making a rhetorical flourish to make my point on why Never Advance is not the powerhouse it was.

If you read all of the many, many pages of this thread you will notice that I am one of the big proponents of this strategy. I took a Tag Flood Never Advance deck to a Top 8 finish in a 2013 Regional when HB Fast Advance was the "smart" choice (read dominant choice).

I have drifted away from playing NBN (because Rush decks bored me) and I have used many of the skills I learned playing NBN Never Advance in my Jinteki, HB and even Weyland explorations. I will say that my Jinteki RP deck is heavily influenced by it.


Sorry, wasn't trying to be snarky. I've read the entire thread, and appreciate your posts, but I just don't agree that Never Advance is not a powerhouse anymore. I took it to regionals fully expecting to get blown out but it performed as well as it ever has, especially vs people that weren't expecting it because Midseasons and Biotic are more popular at the moment.

Other corps are much better than they were in the past but that doesn't mean Never Advance has lost any power!


I think that's a healthy state of the game when there are enough legitimate deck builds that you can't tell what you are facing simply by the ID.
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Andrew
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Thanks Geoff, gonna give it a try!
 
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Count Ringworm
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And here's mine to spur some more discussion. I'm about 50-50 with it, mainly due to the fact that i'm not all that good of a player yet and my meta opponents are really good runners.

overall i'm pretty happy with it, and i keep swapping out a card or two here and there to try different things, different surprises, and so on. The best feeling is when the opponent just stares at you after a successful scorch or an Edge of the World and says "i wasn't expecting THAT!"

Never_advance Bago_tricks

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (12)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
1x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
1x Private Security Force (Core Set)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
2x TGTBT (True Colors)

Asset (7)
1x Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) ••
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
1x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
1x Snare! (Core Set) ••

Upgrade (4)
1x Bernice Mai (Humanity's Shadow)
1x Red Herrings (Core Set)
2x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (9)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
1x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ••••
2x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (4)
1x Bastion (Creation and Control)
1x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (5)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (7)
1x Archer (Core Set) ••
2x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••
3x Data Raven (Core Set)
1x Flare (Future Proof)

Other (1)
1x Chimera (Cyber Exodus)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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Bored a bit with NEH-Biotics, I built a NA NBN recently and had good result with it. The best thing is that nowadays people who see Making News instantly are afraid of Midseasons/Scorch and start playing around it, which is great if you don't have them in your deck. Also it is fun to play NBN with some real ice
 
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Mike G
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Good to hear. Would you mind sharing your decklist?
 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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Nothing special, a very typical econ taxing build:
- agendas as in any other NBN: 3x Astro, Beale, NAPD, 2x Breaking News,
- NEH-like economy: 3x Hedge Fund, Sweeps Week, PAD Campaign, 2x Marked Accounts
- minimal "tricks" package: 3x Jackson, SanSan, Ash
- taxing ice that works well with Making News: 3x Eli, Wraparound, Draco, Caduceus, 2x Pop-up, Enigma, RSVP.
 
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Jesse M
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What's interesting about Never Advance right now is how NEH has changed how people play against NBN. Runners are generally much more ready and prepared to kill assets than they have been in the past.
 
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