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Subject: List of units in the game...GG offer rss

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Mark Ballinger
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The units listed from the rule book are:

Roman:
24 light infantry
8 light bow infantry
4 light sling infantry
24 auxilia infantry
8 warrior infantry
32 medium infantry
16 heavy infantry
4 war machines
9 light cavalry
18 medium cavalry
3 heavy cavalry
2 heavy chariot
4 elephant
3 leaders

Carthaginian:
16 light infantry
4 light bow infantry
12 light sling infantry
20 auxilia infantry
12 warrior infantry
12 medium infantry
16 heavy infantry
24 light cavalry
9 medium cavalry
12 heavy cavalry
4 heavy chariot
6 elephant
3 leaders

7 dice
8 victory banner blocks for each side

That being said, I got 12 extra gray blocks and 8 extra brown. There are several "spare" stickers on the sticker sheets, including some that are not listed as spare.
 
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Rick Young
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does 1 block represent 1 unit(soldier/horseman/spearman/elephant) or a troop?

From the rules:

The scale of the game is fluid and fluctuates from battle to battle. For some scenarios, an infantry unit may represent a legion of fighters, while in other scenarios a unit may represent just a few brave warriors.

Note that an infantry unit is rpresented by four blocks.

Cavalry Units are represented by three larger blocks.

Chariot and elephant units are represented by two even larger blocks.
 
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Nigel Buckle
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If you wanted a Memoir'44 feel then you could use 15mm figures and have one figure per block.

However I'm considering using a much smaller scale and going for more figures per block. Either 5mm or possibly 2mm - advantage of 2mm is you can get a large number of figures in a small space to really give you the feel of a large battle, and you don't get tempted to try to paint any detail either
 
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Nigel Buckle
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Irregular do a line (they're based in the UK)

http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/

I've actually seen the English Civil War figures - really very small terrain also looks like it could be used too, little clumps of trees around a hex to show 'wood' and still room to fit the blocks in.

Had a quick look around Silver Eagle list Irregular (they're in
Connecticut) but 2mm range is a special order.

http://hometown.aol.com/eaglewars/private/sews.html


Edit - added URL for Silver Eagle
 
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Kent Reuber
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I've ordered 2mm figures directly from Irregular. They're pretty fast and you cut out the middle man.
 
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Mark Christopher
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I've been looking at buying 6mm minis for this game, but am wondering what's a reasonably accurate representation of the units. For anyone else buying, or who has bought, Baccus minis, what did you get? This is my tentative list so far. I know a little about the Roman make-up and can guess a bit more, but have little clue for the Carthaginians. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Roman:
24 light infantry = Velites
8 light bow infantry = ?
4 light sling infantry = Balearic Slingers?
24 auxilia infantry = Oscan infantry?
8 warrior infantry = Celtic Warband?
32 medium infantry = Hastati/Principes
16 heavy infantry = Triarii
9 light cavalry = Roman cavalry?
18 medium cavalry = Celtic Cavalry?
3 heavy cavalry = ?

Carthaginian:
16 light infantry =
4 light bow infantry =
12 light sling infantry =
20 auxilia infantry = African spearmen?
12 warrior infantry =
12 medium infantry = Caetratii?
16 heavy infantry =
24 light cavalry =
9 medium cavalry =
12 heavy cavalry =
4 heavy chariot = Chariots
6 elephant = Elephants
3 leaders
 
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Andrés Moon
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I'm more interested on 15 mm/20 mm. I've not decided yet which size I'll use, but it will be probably 20 mm. Although the look using 20 mm is of a skirmish-like battle, the 20 mm plastic miniatures by Zvezda or Hat are very cheap, and are quite easy to paint. This is how the 20 mm miniatures look on the hexes (They are 20 mm Zvezda Persians, though):

For infantry, I'm sure I'll use 2 miniatures per block, but I'll begin using a 1:1 ratio (because of my budget). Perhaps I'll maintain the 1:1 ratio for all the light infantry, which makes more sense.
For cavalry, elephants and leader's, the ratio will be also 1:1.

This is what I will use:

Roman:

2 boxes of Hät's Republican Romans Hastati & Velites. That will be 96 miniatures (it will be combined with the remaining miniatures of "Roman Catapults"):
48/24 miniatures for the 24 blocks of light infantry.
48/24 miniatures for the 24 blocks of auxilia infantry.

2 boxes of Hät's Imperial Roman Auxiliaries. That will be 48 miniatures (that will be also used for the Carthaginian Units:
16/8 miniatures for the Light bow infantry.
8/4 miniatures for the 4 blocks of light sling infantry.

1 Box of Italeri/Zvezda's Gaul Warriors. That will be more than enough miniatures for the 8 blocks of warrior infantry.

2 or 1 box(es) of Hät's Republican Romans Princeps & Triarii. That will be 96 miniatures:
64/32 miniatures for the 32 blocks of Medium infantry.
32/16 miniatures for the 16 blocks of Heavy infantry. [Painting the base of either blue or red will be the key difference]

1 box of Hät's Roman Catapults for the War Machine. (It also contains miniatures for the light infantry)

1 box of Hät's Italian ally cavalry (12 miniatures) for the 9 blocks of light cavalry.
2 box of Hät's Roman cavalry (24 miniatures) for the medium cavalry.
1 box of Hät's Roman Command (32 miniatures) for the Heavy Cavalry and the Leaders.

1 box of Hät's War Elephants. For the 4 blocks of Elephants.

The only thing that will be a problem are the Chariots. Perhaps the only way is a conversion.

Carthaginian:
2 boxes of HäT's Hannibal's Carthaginians Spanish Infantry.
2 boxes of HäT's Hannibal's Carthaginians African Infantry. Combined with the abovementioned Imperial Roman Auxiliaries, that will be more than enough for all the Infantry. One of the boxes can be swapped with a box of HäT's Punic Wars Carthaginian Allies.

2 boxes of Hät's Numidian cavalry for the 24 blocks of Light Cavalry.
1 box of Hät's Spanish cavalry for the 9 blocks of Medium Cavalry

1 box of Hät's Carthaginian Command for the Heavy Cavalry and the 3 leaders.

3 boxes of Zvezda's War Elephants for the 6 blocks of Elephant's (They are just impressive).

There is also the problem of Heavy Chariots...

One might also want Syracusan greeks, used in the first two scenarios (Akragas and Crimissos). Even though Roman blocks are used, I think that if you are buying some miniatures, buying greek miniatures for those scenarios is worth the effort, just for the sake of game accuracy.

That is:
32 blocks of Heavy Infantry
12 blocks of Auxilia Infantry
4 blocks of Light Sling Infantry
8 Blocks of Light Bow Infantry
4 blocks of Light Infantry
2 Leaders
(with 2 boxes of Zvezda's Greek infantry you have all of the above miniatures)

3 blocks of Medium Cavalry
3 blocks of Light Cavalry
(can be covered with 1 box of Hät's Alexander's Macedonian Cavalry)
 
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Grayde Bowen
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You won't need quite so many boxes as there are more blocks than used in all the scenarios. This is based on a count of the maximum number of each unit in each scenario.

You might prefer the Zvedza Republcan Romans to the HAT as they are better casts. Don't use the Roman Ax as Ax as these are out of period. Try Alexanders Light Infantry (HAT), some nice bow and peltasts here or Italian Infantry (HAT). Best choice for the chariot is Zvedza's Persian Cavalry. Nice chariot with 8 cavalry. No way will it fit in the hex; hoping the overspill will be manageable. The only other chariots you can get are in the Ancient Britons (HAT) and Egyptian Cavalry (Atlantic). Both really light chariots but they ought to fit in the hex.

I am half way through painting my armies but at nothing like the detail used above.
 
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Andrés Moon
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Thank you grayde. I hadn't realised that, because I didn't take the time to check the amount of blocks used in the scenarios.
I won't be starting with my plastic armies until mid-February, now I just don't have time enough for that. I also like the Zvezda better, but HäT ones are more "specific". I'm sure that in the end I'll buy according to the shop's availability .

 
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Andrew Adey
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Someone wanted a link to 2mm figs site. Try

http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk

They produce a WIDE range inc fantasy and elephants!
 
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Dan Becker
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I intend on replacing the blocks with miniatures also.

I think if you go with 6mm minis, you can easily use the number of minis to represent the type. For instance, heavy infantry = 8 figures, medium = 6 figures, light = 4 figures. Auxilia = 6 figures. Heavy cavalry = 6 figures, medium cavalry = 4 figures, light cavalry = 2 figures. I also think with 6mm figures, the actual minis are not that important. Baccus or Irregular 6mms should do quite well. My aged eyes will barely make out the sculpture from an arms length away.

For more ideas which Carthaginians figures to buy, Corvus Belli makes nice figures and has good photos on their site. I know these are 15mm, but they should give some ideas of what to shoot for in the smaller scales.
 
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Mark Christopher
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beckerdo wrote:
For more ideas which Carthaginians figures to buy, Corvus Belli makes nice figures and has good photos on their site. I know these are 15mm, but they should give some ideas of what to shoot for in the smaller scales.


Oh, great idea. Thanks!
 
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Adam Tall
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Has anyone ordered direct from Irregular and gotten their "pre-made" 2mm armies of Carthaginians and Romans? If so, what did you get in each set?

Cheers,
Adam
 
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Nigel Buckle
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beckerdo wrote:
I intend on replacing the blocks with miniatures also.

I think if you go with 6mm minis, you can easily use the number of minis to represent the type. For instance, heavy infantry = 8 figures, medium = 6 figures, light = 4 figures. Auxilia = 6 figures. Heavy cavalry = 6 figures, medium cavalry = 4 figures, light cavalry = 2 figures. I also think with 6mm figures, the actual minis are not that important. Baccus or Irregular 6mms should do quite well. My aged eyes will barely make out the sculpture from an arms length away.

For more ideas which Carthaginians figures to buy, Corvus Belli makes nice figures and has good photos on their site. I know these are 15mm, but they should give some ideas of what to shoot for in the smaller scales.


You could do something similar with 2mm too.

1 line, light infantry, 2 lines medium, 3 lines heavy (or 2,3,4 if you want more figures). And then colour the edge of the base with green, blue and red accordingly. I guess distinguishing Auxilaries might be harder so basing them like medium (figure numbers) but with green edges would work.

At 2mm not sure I could easily distinguish between slingers, bowmen or infantry unless the infantry had spears, so maybe that needs a bit of thought too. Can't really say until I actually get the figures.
 
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Dan Becker
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I looked a little more into the what it would take to make an all out Baccus 6mm set. Someone in my local club made a good suggestion that you should base both infantry and cavalry on 20 x 20 mm bases so you could reuse your figures for other rule sets such as Warmaster Ancients.

Nevertheless, here is the spreadsheet that I came up with for my Roman and Carthaginian armies. This is using 8 figures per base for heavy inf., 6 for medium, 4 for light as shown in the Per column. The first few columns show the C&C composition. The next columns show the Baccus figure types to buy. The number of packs you need to buy is in the #P column. All prices in UK pounds!


Roman Army
Name Abbr Num Per Tot BCode Desc PerB PerP Fig Price #P Cost
Light Inf. LI 24 4 96 ARR3 Veles 4 10 40 1.90 3 5.70
Light Bow Inf. Bw 8 4 32 AIR4 Aux Archers 4 10 40 1.90 1 1.90
Light SlingInf Ps 4 4 16 ASP3 Spanish BalSli 4 10 40 1.90 1 1.90
Auxilia Inf. Ax 24 6 144 AIR2 Aux Inf 4 20 80 3.80 2 7.60
Warrior Inf. Wb 8 6 48 ARR4 Oscan Inf 4 20 80 3.80 1 3.80
Medium Inf. MI 32 6 192 ARR1 HastatePrincep 4 20 80 3.80 3 11.40
Heavy Inf. HI 16 8 128 ARR6 Marian Legions 4 20 80 3.80 2 7.60
War Machines Art 4 2 8 AIR5 Bolt Throwers 1 4 4 2.00 2 4.00
Light Cavalry LCav 9 2 18 ARR5 Roman Cav 3 15 45 5.40 1 5.40
Medium Cavalry MCav 18 3 54 AIR3 Aux Cav 3 15 45 5.40 2 10.80
Heavy Cavalry HCav 3 4 12 ASR2 Sarmn Heavy Cav 3 15 45 5.40 1 5.40
Heavy Chariot HCh 2 2 4 APE15 Persian Chariot 1 1 1 1.15 4 4.60
Elephants Ele 4 2 8 AMA8 Macedonian Eles 1 2 2 1.85 2 3.70
Leaders Ldr 3 3 9 AIR6 Roman Generals 3 5 15 2.30 1 2.30
76.10
Carthaginian Army
Name Abbr Num Per Tot BCode Desc PerB PerP Fig Price #P Cost
Light Inf. LI 16 4 64 AMO1 Moorish Inf 3 20 60 2.90 2 5.80
Light Bow Inf. Bw 4 4 16 AMO2 Moorish Jav 4 10 40 1.90 1 1.90
Light SlingInf Ps 12 4 48 ASP3 Spanish BalSli 4 10 40 1.90 1 1.90
Auxilia Inf. Ax 20 6 120 ASP1 Spanish Scutari 3 20 60 2.90 2 5.80
Warrior Inf. Wb 12 6 72 ASP2 Spanish Caetrat 4 10 40 1.90 2 3.80
Medium Inf. MI 12 6 72 ACA1 Carth Citiz Inf 4 20 80 3.80 1 3.80
Heavy Inf. HI 16 8 128 ACA2 Carth Afr Sp 4 20 80 3.80 2 7.60
Light Cavalry LCav 24 2 48 AMO3 Moor Light Cav 3 15 45 5.40 1 5.40
Medium Cavalry MCav 9 3 27 ASP5 Spanish Cav 3 15 45 5.40 1 5.40
Heavy Cavalry HCav 12 4 48 ACA3 Carth LibyanCav 3 15 45 5.40 1 5.40
Heavy Chariot HCh 4 2 8 APE15 Persian Chariot 1 1 1 1.15 8 9.20
Elephants Ele 6 2 12 ACA4 Carth Ele 1 2 2 1.85 3 5.55
Leaders Ldr 3 3 9 AIR6 Roman Generals 3 5 15 2.30 1 2.30
63.85


Observations. 1. Quite expensive, but you can save money via the chariots and horsemen. Use similar horse units for less variations and more savings. You can also half the numbers per base, but I think this given setup will look awesome. Perhaps Peter Baccus will cut an army deal if we show enough interest. 2. Please comment if you think the units are not historically accurate or other comments.
 
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Dan Becker
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I contacted Peter of Baccus, and he said he is willing to package and quote an army on a per strip basis. In other words, you don't have to use his packaging units, but rather may order by strips of 4 infantry or 3 cavalry.

"It seems to me that the most cost-efficient method for you to do this
project would be to order by the game base rather than use my packaging
format.
For example:
Legionaries - 10 bases, each of 2 strips.
I can also tailor command strips (where applicable) to your needs."

I think I will tweak my list and go ahead and order. I'll let you all know how this turns out. And of course after painting them (with my impossibly long painting queue), I will post some photos here.
Thanks, Dan
 
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Barry Kendall
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Quite a while ago, Atlantic made Greek chariots that would do fine for heavy chariots. A lot of the Atlantic stuff has been reissued in recent years. Check on "Plastic Soldier Review" site for info (and nice photos of most of the figures, many on sprues).
 
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Mark Christopher
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beckerdo wrote:
I think I will tweak my list and go ahead and order. I'll let you all know how this turns out. And of course after painting them (with my impossibly long painting queue), I will post some photos here.
Thanks, Dan


That looks like a great set-up, Dan. I can't wait to see the photos. Thanks for putting this together and talking to Baccus.
 
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Dan Becker
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And based on the army lists above, Peter quoted me UKP 58.88 and 56.07 for the Roman and Carthaginians. About 30.00 of that sum was for the chariots and elephants.

Of course this is more expensive than plastics, but I think there will be a nice look to metals, especially 8 Marian Legions on a 20 x 20 mm base, 4 bases per unit.
 
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Dan Becker
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Arun, Peter did not say that, but I'm sure you can do it. To save costs I would recommend:

A) Use fewer elephants and chariots. Either sculpt your own or investigate other suppliers. The Baccus ones are expensive.

B) Cut down on figures per block/unit. I use the "deluxe" 8 figures per heavy infantry block, 6 per medium infantry, and 4 per light infantry. If you halve this, you will halve the number of infantry strips. Just be aware you will be doing lots of strip cutting to get the block setup.

For cavalry I use 4, 3, and 2 horses per block/unit. This is tough to lessen and get savings. Maybe you can use 3, 2, and 1. Of course, what people have been doing in larger scales is using 1 figure for all blocks/units. This works for 20 mm and larger figures, but the problem is that 6 mm is so tiny, you lose the mass effect if you do this.

I think on all my bases I will paint the unit symbols (green circles, blue triangles, red squares). Although this is not super realistic, it should help identify the types of units especially for newbies and less-discriminating friends.
 
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Dan Becker
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20 mm plastic figures (was List of units in the game...)
Zvezda has come out with an outstanding set of 20 mm plastic Carthaginian Infantry. From the variety of poses, to the number of figures, to the quality of castings, this set is a winner.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.asp?manu=ZVE&code...
 
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