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Subject: Maneuvers 401: Wave 2 rss

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David Pontier
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Maneuvers 401 – Wave 2

Okay, this will be a long one. I built up slowly with my last maneuvers and took several articles to get to the complex stuff. Here I am going to try and do it all in one article. I will rest a lot on what I’ve already done, so if you haven’t looked at that, you probably should.

There are three major changes to Wave 2 when it comes to maneuvering:
Large ships
Boost
Push the Limit

Let’s start with the large ships. And, let’s start with the basics.




I hope this is obvious. The big ships are twice as big as the small ones, so if you are lined up at the start, you need to move 1 further, in order to still be lined up at the end. Range 1 is still the most important thing in this game, and with the large ships it is very hard NOT to be in range 1 of them no matter how they move.


Banking with these big ships is more difficult. If you remember from my earlier articles, when banking, if the ships started half a ship apart, then using a 1 higher bank on the outside ships was enough to bring them even. Well, with the big ships, you have to use a 2 higher bank, and you are still are left behind a little after the bank, but it is as close as you can get.




Because the big ship banks so much harder, you can use this to your advantage. Imagine the small ship is Biggs. Imagine the big ship is Lando. Now you have Lando doing a green maneuver range 1 from Biggs, who is held back at range three from the enemy, but because the Falcon is so large, he is likely at range 1 from the enemy.



To turn is a bit more complicated. The Falcon has a 1-Turn (which is amazing!) but the outside ship cannot pull out a 3-turn without crashing.




However, if you are willing to use your action to boost, you can complete the turn with a 2-bank to start.



You can also pull this off with a 2-Turn



As you might be able to see, you can also have the smaller ship do a 3-turn here, and pull up behind the large ship doing a 2-turn, but if you want to bring the small ship alongside the larger one, you need to make a wider maneuver.

Here you can see a typical setup where someone set up an asteroid at range 2 from the starting edge.




Both ships start with the front of their ship at range 1 from the starting edge, and with these maneuvers they successfully navigate around the asteroid. By moving 2 further than the big ship, the small ship has given itself an advantage in the second turn and doesn’t crash.

A 1-Turn would also have cleared the asteroid. Notice below how a 1-Turn for the Falcon actually overlaps itself. This means that the front edge of the ship needs to be more than just past the top of the asteroid in order to clear it during a 1-turn. In combat, a Falcon should rarely have to make a 1-turn unless it wants to hide behind an asteroid like this, so make sure the front edge is about a half inch past the asteroid before you attempt the turn.



A few more words about the big ships. I have watched way too many games where other people have chosen to flip them around with K-turns. Why? The Falcon has a 360-degree firing arc. There is never any reason to flip it around. And the Firespray has a rear firing arc, so flipping it 180 degrees doesn’t make sense either. Now, I understand the Heavy Laser is a powerful weapon, and it only fires out of the forward firing arc, but I don’t understand why flipping around to stress yourself out, losing an action, and limiting your maneuver choices on the next turn is better than just firing out of your rear arc with 4 dice (at range 1) and an action. The Heavy Laser Cannon, like so many of the powerful new cards, has its drawbacks too. I’ve heard it said that it makes no sense to fly a Y-Wing without an Ion Cannon. I agree with that. I’ve also heard it said that it makes no sense to fly a Firespray without a Heavy Laser Cannon. I disagree with that.

With the Falcon it makes even less sense to flip around. If you have missiles on the ship, then make sure you fire them on the first combat round. And then NEVER point your ship at the enemy again. When I play against the Falcon, I enjoy when my opponent banks it toward me to fire. There is no reason to do that. I take that back. There is one reason to do that, and thy name is Backstabber. But when you point that huge “Piece of Junk” at a swarm of TIEs, you have no second movement. I am going to clog the air-space (space-space?) in front of that ship with a whole bunch of pilot skill 1 ships, so you have no choice but to crash into me. If you turn away from my ships and fire backwards at me, then not only do you have a clear path in front of you, but now, since I move first, I have to crash into you if I want to keep you in my firing arc. And if you are so worried about Backstabber, then kill him already. And his 1 extra attack dice may do 1 extra hit, but if by flying away and around your enemy insures you an action each turn, then use it to focus or evade, and you will get a much bigger offensive benefit than the one extra dice Backstabber has. I love putting PTL on the Falcon. I’ve read that people think that limits the Falcon’s movement too much. But by not flying at the enemy, I can always find room for a 1-bank. And with two actions, you can always evade and focus, so who cares about Backstabber. However, because of this, I always recommend trying to find room for Backstabber in an Imperial build because of the advantage he has against big ships.



Now let’s talk about the Boost action.

Below you see a typical in game scenario.



This is the second move and the approaching ships prepare to exchange fire. In this situation, both sets of ships will exchange fire on each other, and the best action is either to focus to insure maximum damage or evade if the ship can.

But what if the ships from the bottom had done this instead:



Instead of banking toward the enemy, they went straight and then boosted. Now Ships A and B can fire on their opponent, but don’t have to worry about return fire. By flanking the approaching ships on both sides, you can force them to fly straight instead of banking, and then by boosting past them, you will be able to fire, and they cannot.

I am a strong supporter of the Focus action. I think its benefits over evade are extraordinary. I still like evade, especially on the Falcon, but Focus is so much stronger overall. I greatly dislike it when my attacking ships do not have a focus token. And I do everything in my power to make sure that my opponents don’t have focus tokens for when they attack. But in this situation, when you can guarantee that you will be the only one attacking, I think it is worthwhile to use your action on boost instead of focus.

But that brings us to Push the Limit (PTL).
With the barrel roll action from Wave 1, I never experimented with it like I should have. Mostly it was because I always flew Rebels, but also because I loved the Focus action so much. When I did use it to barrel roll myself into a better firing position with a TIE fighter, I would end up rolling a blank and an EYE for my attack and do no damage. Yes, it was great that I barrel rolled out of the way so my opponent couldn’t shoot at me, but because I didn’t focus, I also did no damage to him. Or at least I would do less damage. Now with PTL, you can barrel roll or boost and still take a focus or evade. I won’t go into detail about how to use that, because it is pretty obvious, but I do want to show the benefits of combining a boost and a barrel roll together. Right now this is done most easily on the Interceptors, as they are the only ships with both actions, but you can spend some money to give the boost action to the TIEs with elite pilot skill and then give them PTL also so they can do both.

Here is a generic attack scenario.



Two ships are faced off against each other to exchange fire at range 1. They will both do significant damage to each other. But what if one of them decides to Barrel Roll and Boost for their action?



Now only one of the ships will be firing on the other.

Now look at the previous set up I had before. What if both sides decide to bank toward each other?



Normally you would now prepare to exchange fire at range 1 and one of the sides would probably lose a ship.

But if one side decided to barrel roll and boost:



Now Ship A will take no damage, while Ship B can fire on one of the ships without fear of return fire. I’ve played a lot with the Interceptors and it is definitely fun to boost and barrel roll all over the map and put yourself into great position to fire and also receive no damage. My one regret with this type of flying is that you end up using all your actions to move, and none of them to get a Focus token. Also, if you are playing in a timed match, you will do less damage each turn. You might not take much damage either, but if you have to kill at least 33 points of your enemy’s ships, you need a focused way to do that.


That is where Soontir Fel comes in. Because he gets a free Focus token every time he does a double move like this, he turns into an extraordinary weapon.



In the scenario above, Soontir came around an asteroid and found an X-Wing pointing the wrong way. In the combat round Soontir does some damage to him, but doesn’t kill him. Now the X-wing needs to escape. There is no maneuver the X-wing can do where Soontir will not be able to shoot him after a 1-turn and a series of boosting and barrel rolling. The X-wing figures its best chance is to flip around so if it survives the next attack, it can at least return fire.

Soontir has other ideas.

People have said that while the Interceptors are powerful, they blow up just as easily as TIE fighters. I agree with that, but you have to be able to hit them first. If you plan your maneuvers carefully, you can make it very difficult to get a clean shot on them. Add in a stealth device, and they are even harder to hit.

I've posted an updated PDF file with all these articles to the files section and I'm sure it will be approved soon.
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Chris
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Just wanted to say this is great - I've been playing for about a month now, just kind of eyeballing the movements when planning, and these articles really help me understand the deeper game in a way a new-to-minis player like me can follow.
 
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Robert M.
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One small addition I discovered accidentally, that might help Imperial players with opening maneuvers using Large ships:

It will only work with 5 forward, which places the fighter just ahead of the Large ship, or a 1 forward to end up just behind it.
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Sergio Achinelli
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The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly. My Han Solo loves to see them on the table. The more, the merrier.

They are nasty against X-Wings, though.
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Sebastian Grawan
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You sir, are awesome. You should teach this at College.
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Fergus Hadley
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Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly. My Han Solo loves to see them on the table. The more, the merrier.

They are nasty against X-Wings, though.


I completely agree, ad I really like how Wave 2 introduced this aspect of scissors-paper-stone into squadron building...
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Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly.


This is what worries me. I'm in love with the idea of Soontir Fel + Push the Limit and Turr Phennir + Veteran Instincts but going against a 360 firing arc sounds like half of my points going down the drain. I would not know what to do in that situation.
 
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Neil, the Tusken Tactician
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thezeronumber wrote:
Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly.

This is what worries me. I'm in love with the idea of Soontir Fel + Push the Limit and Turr Phennir + Veteran Instincts but going against a 360 firing arc sounds like half of my points going down the drain. I would not know what to do in that situation.

I don't know.... fly casual?
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Joseph Woodworth
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I had a fairly amazing game today using some of these techniques, so I heartily endorse them (granted I only just read this now )

I played
Soontir Fel + stealth + push the limit
Backstabber
Kath Scarlet, Mercenary copilot, Marksmanship, Ion cannon, Cluster missiles

vs

Lando + chewie + millennium falcon title
Biggs + shield upgrade
A-wing + homing missiles.

It didn't go so well for me in the beginning - I had Kath fly up the middle - he had his fighters come around the bottom right, I had mine go up around the top left.

after the second move Kath managed to do an Ion damage to the falcon, and backstabber got taken out without so much as a shot - while soontir missed. - the next two turns involved the firespray going down, doing little more than another damage to the falcons shields(but the critical mistake of having the homing missiles fire at the firespray). It was now up to soontir fel, and we figured we would play until soontir was downed.

Over the next 4-5 turns, soontir seemed unhittable, with his stealth, evade and double focus - he kept on the falcon, which missed a turn of shooting from landing on an asteroid , and a couple lucky misteps where my opponent didn't think i was gonna drive soontir into range one of the falcon - and the falcon went down, boost and barrel roll also allowed me to make it impossible to fire at biggs while still aiming at the falcon....

From there - a turn and head on head with Biggs lead to biggs losing his shields (all 3) and soontir barely surviving (with a hit and a critical - which thankfully was a munitions explosion...) soontir was down to 1 remaining hull and no longer had stealth - somehow his maneuverability and constant evade plus double focus or evade plus focus and boost/barrel (yay green) let him flit about and finally destroy biggs and knock the a-wings shields out - the a-wing just couldn't hit, either because I could get asteroids between us while trying to approach - or boost+barrel roll tricks. - due to having lost 2/3rds of my force in turn 3 and the number of rounds the game went - I am amazed at what Soontir + Push the limit + stealth can do with crafty maneuvering.

In fact, I feel that the loss of the big ships opened up so much more space for Soontir to really wreak maneuvering havok. The tips you've posted above are very very useful.
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David Pontier
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voidstate wrote:
Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly. My Han Solo loves to see them on the table. The more, the merrier.

They are nasty against X-Wings, though.


I completely agree, ad I really like how Wave 2 introduced this aspect of scissors-paper-stone into squadron building...


I agree that the strategy of boosting and barrel rolling has no effect on the falcon, however, Soontir's ability to evade and double focus each turn combined with a stealth device gives him a powerful attack, and a very good defense. If he avoids range 1 on the falcon, then he is doing 1-3 damage each turn on the falcon, while the Falcon has to roll 3 hits, and Soontir would have to roll 3 blanks with his 4 dice in order to be hit.

I watched a game where the falcon shot at Soontir 4 times in a row with Marskmanship each time and never scratched him, while Soontir kept pecking away at him with 1-2 damage each turn. In this situation, I would recommend wasting a turn with the falcon to get a target lock, so that on the next turn you can also focus. Also, since the base of the falcon is so big, his 1 forward covers just as much ground as the 2 forward for the Interceptor. On the surface this makes it look hard for the Falcon to narrow the distance between the two ships, but if you instead to 1-turns back and forth, the Interceptor will be forced to catch up with you, and then you can get your 4 dice attack. Assuming you've held a target lock in reserve, this gives you the best chance to strip the stealth and kill the bastard.
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Jeff Dunford
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Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly. My Han Solo loves to see them on the table. The more, the merrier.


Huh? My crazy ninja math says an Interceptor costs 1.5x as much as a TIE. They might die just as quickly, but they can make up for their 1.5x cost by dealing more than 1.5x as much damage (especially if flying with Howlrunner, or against a low-agility opponent).

P.S. My 5x Interceptors tell your Han Solo to "Bring it!" I'll take those "odds" any day. [mind the pun]
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Jeff Dunford
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Piqsid wrote:

...
But if one side decided to barrel roll and boost:



Now Ship A will take no damage, while Ship B can fire on one of the ships without fear of return fire. I’ve played a lot with the Interceptors and it is definitely fun to boost and barrel roll all over the map and put yourself into great position to fire and also receive no damage. My one regret with this type of flying is that you end up using all your actions to move, and none of them to get a Focus token. Also, if you are playing in a timed match, you will do less damage each turn. You might not take much damage either, but if you have to kill at least 33 points of your enemy’s ships, you need a focused way to do that.


That is where Soontir Fel comes in. Because he gets a free Focus token every time he does a double move like this, he turns into an extraordinary weapon.



In the scenario above, Soontir came around an asteroid and found an X-Wing pointing the wrong way. In the combat round Soontir does some damage to him, but doesn’t kill him. Now the X-wing needs to escape. There is no maneuver the X-wing can do where Soontir will not be able to shoot him after a 1-turn and a series of boosting and barrel rolling. The X-wing figures its best chance is to flip around so if it survives the next attack, it can at least return fire.

Soontir has other ideas.

People have said that while the Interceptors are powerful, they blow up just as easily as TIE fighters. I agree with that, but you have to be able to hit them first. If you plan your maneuvers carefully, you can make it very difficult to get a clean shot on them. Add in a stealth device, and they are even harder to hit.


You mention Soontir Fel (with Push the Limit), but it should also be mentioned that Turr Phennir (without any upgrades, or perhaps with Veteran Instincts to bring him up to Fel's skill) can do this, too: e.g. Boost (or Barrel Roll) into position, fire at Range 1, then Barrel Roll (or Boost) out of the opposing ship's firing arc.
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iNano78 wrote:
Piqsid wrote:

...
But if one side decided to barrel roll and boost:



Now Ship A will take no damage, while Ship B can fire on one of the ships without fear of return fire. I’ve played a lot with the Interceptors and it is definitely fun to boost and barrel roll all over the map and put yourself into great position to fire and also receive no damage. My one regret with this type of flying is that you end up using all your actions to move, and none of them to get a Focus token. Also, if you are playing in a timed match, you will do less damage each turn. You might not take much damage either, but if you have to kill at least 33 points of your enemy’s ships, you need a focused way to do that.


That is where Soontir Fel comes in. Because he gets a free Focus token every time he does a double move like this, he turns into an extraordinary weapon.



In the scenario above, Soontir came around an asteroid and found an X-Wing pointing the wrong way. In the combat round Soontir does some damage to him, but doesn’t kill him. Now the X-wing needs to escape. There is no maneuver the X-wing can do where Soontir will not be able to shoot him after a 1-turn and a series of boosting and barrel rolling. The X-wing figures its best chance is to flip around so if it survives the next attack, it can at least return fire.

Soontir has other ideas.

People have said that while the Interceptors are powerful, they blow up just as easily as TIE fighters. I agree with that, but you have to be able to hit them first. If you plan your maneuvers carefully, you can make it very difficult to get a clean shot on them. Add in a stealth device, and they are even harder to hit.


You mention Soontir Fel (with Push the Limit), but it should also be mentioned that Turr Phennir (without any upgrades, or perhaps with Veteran Instincts to bring him up to Fel's skill) can do this, too: e.g. Boost (or Barrel Roll) into position, fire at Range 1, then Barrel Roll (or Boost) out of the opposing ship's firing arc.


With Fennir you have to be hoping you're shooting at a lower pilot skill so he doesn't shoot you first before you get a chance to get out of his arc.
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David Pontier
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iNano78 wrote:

You mention Soontir Fel (with Push the Limit), but it should also be mentioned that Turr Phennir (without any upgrades, or perhaps with Veteran Instincts to bring him up to Fel's skill) can do this, too: e.g. Boost (or Barrel Roll) into position, fire at Range 1, then Barrel Roll (or Boost) out of the opposing ship's firing arc.


Agreed, but you don't get the free focus token to attack.
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Jeff Dunford
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Piqsid wrote:
iNano78 wrote:

You mention Soontir Fel (with Push the Limit), but it should also be mentioned that Turr Phennir (without any upgrades, or perhaps with Veteran Instincts to bring him up to Fel's skill) can do this, too: e.g. Boost (or Barrel Roll) into position, fire at Range 1, then Barrel Roll (or Boost) out of the opposing ship's firing arc.


Agreed, but you don't get the free focus token to attack.


Depends. In the upper-right example and lower example, Soontir can Barrel Roll + Boost and get Focus for attack. But in the upper-left example, Soontir either Barrel Rolls and Evadesto get a free offensive Focus before facing return fire, or he Barrel Rolls and Boosts but doesn't get a shot. If the upper-left example is Phennir, he Barrel Rolls, shoots, then Boosts out of his target's arc.

In other words, in the upper examples, I want Phennir on the left ("Ship A") and Fel on the right ("Ship B"). In the lower example, it doesn't matter, but I agree that Fel gets a Focus while Phennir doesn't... unless he's also using Push the Limit, in which case he could fire with Focus before performing both a Boost and Barrel Roll (but needs to be attacking an opponent with pilot skill < 7).

RogueLieutenant wrote:

With Fennir you have to be hoping you're shooting at a lower pilot skill so he doesn't shoot you first before you get a chance to get out of his arc.


That's why Veteran Instinct is important. But most of the time (when you're opponent doesn't have several ships of skill 8-9), Push the Limit is almost as good on Phennir as it is on Fel.
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David Pontier
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iNano78 wrote:


In other words, in the upper examples, I want Phennir on the left ("Ship A") and Fel on the right ("Ship B"). In the lower example, it doesn't matter, but I agree that Fel gets a Focus while Phennir doesn't... unless he's also using Push the Limit, in which case he could fire with Focus before performing both a Boost and Barrel Roll (but needs to be attacking an opponent with pilot skill < 7).


We agree.
 
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Remo Galvan
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David, another great article, thanks !
 
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Sergio Achinelli
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iNano78 wrote:
Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly. My Han Solo loves to see them on the table. The more, the merrier.


Huh? My crazy ninja math says an Interceptor costs 1.5x as much as a TIE. They might die just as quickly, but they can make up for their 1.5x cost by dealing more than 1.5x as much damage (especially if flying with Howlrunner, or against a low-agility opponent).

P.S. My 5x Interceptors tell your Han Solo to "Bring it!" I'll take those "odds" any day. [mind the pun]


Never tell me the odds! And my Vassal is open to you at any time of the day, my good sir.
 
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Rob Heiser
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David,

Your "Maneuvers" threads are terrific. Have you collected them into a GeekList yet?
 
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David Pontier
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rheiser wrote:
David,

Your "Maneuvers" threads are terrific. Have you collected them into a GeekList yet?


They are downloadable in PDF format here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/87723/movement

If you are looking for a list of these types of things, go here:
Collection of user created material for X-Wing Miniatures Game
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Xander Fulton
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thezeronumber wrote:
Nolorfin wrote:
The "problem" with the Interceptor is that the Falcon ignores all its advantages. They cost twice as much as a TIE and die just as quickly.


This is what worries me. I'm in love with the idea of Soontir Fel + Push the Limit and Turr Phennir + Veteran Instincts but going against a 360 firing arc sounds like half of my points going down the drain. I would not know what to do in that situation.

Wellll... if you put a stealth device on both of them, you could still get real advantage out of the boost or barrel roll by slipping and sliding around to try to keep at range 3 from the Falcon for your shots.

With only 1 defense die standard, most Falcon pilots are going to run shield upgrades over stealth if they take any defensive upgrade at all...so range 3 shots for you bumps the Falcon up to only 2 defense dice. Not awful. On the other hand, a TIE Interceptor with stealth device at range 3 is rolling 5 defense dice. Good luck hitting that!

Not sure that really adds up to a super grand strategy, though, in that it basically amounts to "try not to get hit". (And, of course, if the Falcon is running Solo + Gunner, he's going to get a lot of tries to hit you, but still...the odds aren't super for him, and even with JUST Solo + Gunner in the YT-1300, he's sinking more than half his points into one unit, so...) Once you start losing your stealth devices from enemy plinks that get through...not sure what the next step would be.

Still, use of boost+barrel roll definitely provides some value - even against the Falcon.
 
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