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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Immortal ability rss

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Question about monsters with this ability like Ogre and skeleton archer.

In the case of the Ogre in a 4 heroes game. So you begin with 1 major (red) and 1 minor (white). If heroes kill the major (red), does it become a minor (white) ? I'm asking it because there isn't a second minor ogre miniature ?
-> Do you consider the major (red) as a minor (white) ?
Or
-> If the major dies and the minor is in play, the major don't become a minor ?

Imagine the case where the OL can renforce Ogre every turn. The heroes killed 3 times the major one but never a minor one, so do you have 4 minor ogres on the board ?

My questions :
- Can you replace the major with the minor if you don't have the figure to do so ?
- In a 3 heroes game where OL only haves the major ogre and can renforce it. If the heroes kill it, it become a minor (white), can the OL renforce the major one ? If yes, he will have 1 major and 1 minor in a 3 heroes game (more than the stacking limit).
- Can you place more miniature than those who are in the orignal box game ? Like you only have 2 ogres (1 red and 1 white). But if the special case where the red is killed when the white is in play, can you place something that acts like a white ogre ?
- Same question with the Kobolds where the major splits in 2 minor. If you reinforce some major, and only them get killed, you can have something like 20 minor kobolds on the map ? Is it allowed if you have mini's that can be considered as minor kobold ?


I laready thank you for answer.

 
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Darren Nakamura
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You are limited by the original components, but I was under the impression that the original components allowed for two minion Ogres. (I don't know for sure because I don't own them).

If a Master with Undying dies, it is replaced with a Minion of the same type, ignoring group limits but respecting component limits. So if you have the corresponding Minion figure, you put it in its place and if you don't, then the monster just dies.

This applies to a three-hero game. If the heroes kill a Master with Undying, it will become a Minion, and then if the Overlord gets Reinforcements, he can reinforce the Master. Reinforcement respects group limits, but the limit is 0 Minions and 1 Master, so the Overlord can reinforce that one Master. Being over the limit on Minions was allowed by the Undying ability.

I think the maximum number of Kobolds on the map is 15. If you place the original nine, then the heroes kill the three Masters, they each Split, making twelve. Then the Masters can reinforce, but they won't be able to Split again unless some of the other Minions are defeated beforehand, freeing up components.
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Knobbly Savage
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In this answer in the FAQ-thread, Justin Kemppainen clarified that you are still limited by the figures available (however, he did not say "group limits"). My answers therefore:



Itchi wrote:
My questions :
- Can you replace the major with the minor if you don't have the figure to do so ?


No, you are limited by the figures you have.

Itchi wrote:
- In a 3 heroes game where OL only haves the major ogre and can renforce it. If the heroes kill it, it become a minor (white), can the OL renforce the major one ? If yes, he will have 1 major and 1 minor in a 3 heroes game (more than the stacking limit).


According to the answer: Yes,
you can circumvent group limits this way.


Itchi wrote:
- Can you place more miniature than those who are in the orignal box game ? Like you only have 2 ogres (1 red and 1 white). But if the special case where the red is killed when the white is in play, can you place something that acts like a white ogre ?


No.

Itchi wrote:
- Same question with the Kobolds where the major splits in 2 minor. If you reinforce some major, and only them get killed, you can have something like 20 minor kobolds on the map ? Is it allowed if you have mini's that can be considered as minor kobold ?


This is a little tricky, as you have more miniatures from Descent 1e than the maximum group limit, and a case could be made that you are allowed to use all the miniatures available instead of all the miniatures up to a maximum of the highest group limit. It is also possible that Justin meant to say that you are limited by the group limits for the quest instead of miniatures available, which would make all my previous answers wrong.

The possible answers for this question are:
- You are limited by the miniatures in 1e - 12 minions.
- You are limited by the highest group limit for 2e - I don't have my cards handy, I think it was something like 8?
- You are limited by the group limit according to the number of players (not the letter of Justin's answer, but possibly the intent).

It might be a good Idea to submit this question to FFG for clarification (and then please post the answer in the "Adam and Justin sez"-Thread


Itchi wrote:
I laready thank you for answer.



Hope it helped at least a little
 
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That's good help for the moment ^^
Indeed, there are 2 minion ogres + 1 major ogre.
Thx
 
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Jan Probst
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Since a plastic limit is supposed to be a thing for monsters, and it just happens to be so that all original D2 figures are provided in plastic quantities equal to 4P group limit, I am pretending that that's the "virtual plastic limit" that exists for monsters without original D2 figures as well.

Storage is tight enough as is, I'm not gonna store extra D1 relics with the D2 stuff just to fuel Immortal hax.

Thus, "kill the master first" would be a viable counter against Immortal at my table, but I can live with that.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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If you're the Overlord and you're fine imposing that on yourself, go for it. If you can convince somebody else as overlord to nerf his monsters, good on you for that as well.
 
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Robin REEVE
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When making my own proxy standups, I added one minion per master for immortal monsters (and two minion kobolds per master, as those split).
But I had no idea about the number of original D1 figures provided - and it does not have any effect, if I still can replace a master with a supplemental minion.
 
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