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Subject: Some questions rss

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Yu Den
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I just had so many questions to developers/publishers I'll just ask them all here:

1. How much does it cost to make:
A. A card? and by size.
B. Card screens for each size of cards?
C. Dice of different facets?
D. Miniatures by size? Colored and not?
E. Board by size?
F. Tokens?
G. Playmats?
H. Boxes of different sizes?
I. RPG resource book?
J. Any other relevant thing you can think of?

2. Are there any conceptions about prices in the industry?

3. How shipping costs calculations are made? Is it regarding continent/distance/weight/size?

4. How the cost of a tabletop games is divided between design, art, publish, print, marketing, etc.?

5. What is the development cycle of a table top game?

6. How to market independent tabletop games?

7. Why publishers don't make cheaper printable versions?

8. How many variants is too much, or the more the merrier?

9. How many expansions and different theme games (like in munchkin or fluxx) is too much, or the more the merrier?

10. What is the average time a tabletop gamer spends on tabletop games?

11. What is the average time a tabletop gamer spends on a single game?
*. How much on a board game?
*. How much on an RPG?
*. How much on a collectible card game?

12. What is the average sum of money a tabletop gamer would spend on games in month?
*. How much in the holiday season?

13. How often is it good to make a sale?
*. And when?

14. What machinery do you need to personally self produce high quality products? And how much that machinery costs?


 
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Paul DeStefano
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Without A LOT more info, all of these questions are way too variable.
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R J
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Here's a good list of designer resources: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/933849/the-designers-resourc...
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Greg
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1) Varies a lot by all sorts of thing. Specifying the material to be used, the printing on both sides, the finish, the dimensions of a card and the quantity per game got me a manufacturing quote that varied by up to 50% depending on how many games I wanted to make. You need a MUCH more detailed spec and to send it to particular manufacturers.

2) Everyone who makes, buys or sells games has a concept of what they cost.

3) Shipping costs depend on all of the things that you mentioned. It also matters whether you can send things in bulk or not, for instance sending all of the games to a distribution center in a target country where they're mailed out individually can be cheaper than shipping them one at a time.

4) Depends on the game and the company. Printing and shipping are your big costs. Designers quite often get paid peanuts, publishers do a bit better but not lots. Marketting varies dramatically between big companies who can spend buckets and one man kickstarters who may go for a banner ad (but will probably go for blog mentions and reviews and other things)

5) Concieve - Prototype - Playtest - Improve - Prototype - Playtest (repeat a load, no idea what's typical, 300 hours of testing?) - Artify - Manufacture - Sell

6) Make the game good and send it to bloggers and/or reviewers who write to your target audience.

7) You mean print and play? Some do! The ones that do not are probably worried about the losing money on people playing the print and play versions.

8) Each variant adds time and expense for testing but adds value to the game. Your call, there are always quality/expense tradeoffs.

9) Varies a lot by game and market. Some games don't have the audience to support expansions. Some aren't right for anything but their theme.

10) Depends on how you define a "tabletop gamer". Chances are you do it by how often they play games (as opposed to whether they've ever played games) so it'll wind up circular.

11) Depends a lot on the game, pretty much everyone has something they've played once and something they've played a lot.

12) Again will depend on how you define a tabletop gamer, I think that people who have tonnes of games are at one edge of the bell curve, my guess is than at average will be "not much"

13) There are lots of philosophies on this. My feeling is that once the people who bought it for full price on release won't feel cheated but while people who would've bought it cheaper haven't yet forgotten about the product.

14) I've no idea, if you're going for more than a card game I imagine it would be prohibitively expensive.

tl;dr: Almost all of it depends on context.
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mike
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Way too many questions for one thread, you'll receive much better feedback by postings one at a time.

Are you interested in setting up a publishing company or just interested in the design side?

Most of these questions do not matter as much if you are just interested in being a game designer and plan on submitting your designs to established publishers.
 
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Dallas Tucker
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You can go to thehere and here to get a basic idea of costs from theGameCrafter.
 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Quote:
1. How much does it cost to make:
A. A card? and by size.
B. Card screens for each size of cards?
C. Dice of different facets?
D. Miniatures by size? Colored and not?
E. Board by size?
F. Tokens?
G. Playmats?
H. Boxes of different sizes?
I. RPG resource book?
J. Any other relevant thing you can think of?

A: The card itself? Or card + art? Varies from printer to printer. The card itself is very cheap.
B: Same as above.
C: Alot. Will vary from place to place, but debossed dice will set you back a bit. Even custom printed faces will cost.
D: Thousands right out the gate, actual pressing is pretty cheap. Colour is mostly irrelevant, but you need to know what a factory has in stock. some can be quirky. Varies from factory to factory on all points.
E-F-G-H-I-J: All vary from printer to printer.

There are no set rates. and prices may vary based on quantity ordered. Ususally the more you order, the cheaper it gets.




Quote:
2. Are there any conceptions about prices in the industry?


There are no set rates. and prices may vary based on quantity ordered. Ususally the more you order, the cheaper it gets to make a game. There are some base factors though. Usually you take the cost to make the game and multiply by at least 2 as retailers take up to 1/2 of the sale price. Lots of factors. If you are bypassing retailers then you can go alot lower. Region can factor in too.


Quote:
3. How shipping costs calculations are made? Is it regarding continent/distance/weight/size?


REALLY variable. In general, shipping overseas is costly, even to Canada is starting to climb. Weight is the main factor. Then size.

Quote:
4. How the cost of a tabletop games is divided between design, art, publish, print, marketing, etc.?


Its divided however its needed. An art or minis intensive game is going to see 75%+ of spendature funneled into that. Advertising can take a chunk out too.

Quote:
5. What is the development cycle of a table top game?


There is no set time. Its done when you think its done and ready to go to print. In general, the more art a game has, the longer the down time as art and mini sculpts can take weeks per piece. Writing prose can take a wile too, but usually never as long as the artistics elements do.

Quote:
6. How to market independent tabletop games?


Advertising in gaming mags, reviewers, etc.

Quote:
7. Why publishers don't make cheaper printable versions?


Either its contra-productive to sales, or the game is such its hard to very darn hard to PNP. Also publishers do not want to make things easy for pirating and bootlegging. Many reasons, some valid, some not so.

Quote:
8. How many variants is too much, or the more the merrier?


Variants of the core game? In what manner? Optional rules? However many you want to pay the extra page count for in the rules.

Quote:
9. How many expansions and different theme games (like in munchkin or fluxx) is too much, or the more the merrier?


Dependant on the individual gamer. Some can never have enough and want endless expansions. The more a gamer is into a game, the more expansions they want.

Quote:
10. What is the average time a tabletop gamer spends on tabletop games?


However much they can. Totally dependant on the individual and the gaming group. Some only meet once a week. Some people game near daily.

Quote:
11. What is the average time a tabletop gamer spends on a single game?
*. How much on a board game?
*. How much on an RPG?
*. How much on a collectible card game?


Same as 10. There is no average, groups and individuals vary too wildly in outlook. Some groups want games that last hours, some can barely play games lasting minutes.

Quote:
12. What is the average sum of money a tabletop gamer would spend on games in month?
*. How much in the holiday season?


Probably averages 20$ per month, or 10$ per month. Assume players pick up a 20$ game about once every other month. Possibly one 50$ or more game once a year. Thats on average. Individuals may be tossing alot more or alot less per year.

Quote:
13. How often is it good to make a sale?
*. And when?


Sale of what? A game? As often as possible of course.

Quote:
14. What machinery do you need to personally self produce high quality products? And how much that machinery costs?


Hundreds of thousands for quality factory machines. This is beyond the scope of home printing. Mid to low level can be done for alot less of course. Miniatures are currently still impossible fo mass produce at quality from home. 3d Printers simply have not caught up to us yet.
 
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Jesse McGatha
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Omega2064 wrote:

Quote:
14. What machinery do you need to personally self produce high quality products? And how much that machinery costs?


Hundreds of thousands for quality factory machines. This is beyond the scope of home printing. Mid to low level can be done for alot less of course. Miniatures are currently still impossible fo mass produce at quality from home. 3d Printers simply have not caught up to us yet.


3D printers are coming along very fast. An Afinia H-Series printer produces really nice models, for example. I don't think they're quite salable, but they're very good, and the printer costs $1600. 3D printer manufacturers are actively competing on print resolution, cost, and speed. There will be a new batch of printers available around CES next January that will probably up this again. Note this is a monochromatic, fused filament deposition 3D printer, like all 3D printers suitable for the home.

For high-quality, full-color printing, you have to step up to a $30K+ machine (a Z-Corp a/k/a 3D Systems color powder printer runs about $60K, IIRC). Powder printers tend to produce models that are much more fragile, although they can be bonded with epoxy to get pretty good durability results--just don't drop them. Note that a powder printer is messy, really needs a support system to reclaim unused powder etc., so it's really not home-practical.

Other printers, like the Form-1 resin printer on Kickstarter will give you super high-quality (again, monochromatic) and very durable, but the fumes are somewhat toxic, so not really a great choice for home printing either.
 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Once 3d printers solve the striation problem then things will really change dramatically as the price comes down to more affordable levels. And at least for now transparent 3d printing isnt viable due again to the striation process. But every day a little closer!
 
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