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Subject: If you have been on the fence rss

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Alex Price
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I have been on the fence with buying this game for about a year now. I just couldn't see spending 100 dollars for the game. I just jumped in and bought it today and played 10 matches. If you have been on the fence for this game for a while and have seen all of the reviews and you still remained interested for this long. Just buy it when you have the available cash, I wish I would have got this game a long time ago now.
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Noway Jose
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Great game!
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Scott Douglass
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Or just try it online for free...
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Manary Corte
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Best game of all time...
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This is an excellent 2-player filler. I own and love this game.

Way to go!
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Matt Connellan
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ManCorte wrote:
This is an excellent 2-player filler. I own and love this game.

Way to go!


If by "filler" you mean "evening filler". This ain't no sideshow, this is the main stage baby!
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Jools Thomas
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I'd agree if there wasn't talk of a 2nd edition...
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Jonathan Harrison
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Jools wrote:
I'd agree if there wasn't talk of a 2nd edition...

I must have missed this. Where is this talk?

What about Shadows??
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Michael Marvosh
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Jools wrote:
I'd agree if there wasn't talk of a 2nd edition...


I don't follow it super closely, but I don't think this is true.
 
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Brandon Kempf
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It's Sirlin, I'm sure it's coming eventually, along with Puzzle Strive v4.
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Jools Thomas
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http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/791111/rumor-of-a-major-chan...
 
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Michael Marvosh
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I'm no Sirlin apologist (I'm sure if I met the guy in person I wouldn't like him much, though I do find his games highly entertaining), but I don't think he's stupid. He is definitely aware of the strong backlash to his frequent changes in Puzzle Strike.

This post, http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/yomi-e..., while older, seems to indicate that changes to Yomi will be minor rules changes and a few changes to character cards, which will be easily replaceable, i.e. no new edition.

I have played the game with his beta rules and found them to be better, more fun, and completely workable with the cards I currently own.

As things stand, I don't see that the release of the Yomi expansion will require any kind of significant update to the first edition, and any rules changes will be more along the lines of the recent rewrite of Rune Wars's rulebook, which nobody seems to have become overly upset about (and which made the game way better).

That being said, if he does release a completely new second edition (which I think unlikely due to the majority of the discussion on FantasyStrike.com), there's no way in hell I'm going to buy it.
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Jonathan Harrison
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Drinkdrawers wrote:
I'm no Sirlin apologist (I'm sure if I met the guy in person I wouldn't like him much, though I do find his games highly entertaining), but I don't think he's stupid. He is definitely aware of the strong backlash to his frequent changes in Puzzle Strike.

This post, http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/yomi-e..., while older, seems to indicate that changes to Yomi will be minor rules changes and a few changes to character cards, which will be easily replaceable, i.e. no new edition.

I have played the game with his beta rules and found them to be better, more fun, and completely workable with the cards I currently own.

As things stand, I don't see that the release of the Yomi expansion will require any kind of significant update to the first edition, and any rules changes will be more along the lines of the recent rewrite of Rune Wars's rulebook, which nobody seems to have become overly upset about (and which made the game way better).

That being said, if he does release a completely new second edition (which I think unlikely due to the majority of the discussion on FantasyStrike.com), there's no way in hell I'm going to buy it.

I will, but only because I have yet to buy Yomi as printed: I use the PnP files I bought from him for $15. If he releases a second edition, or even when he releases Shadows, I'll spring for his whole set then.
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Jools Thomas
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Yup, me too. I'd buy an improved 2nd edition.
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Rik Newman
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I don't quite get some of you guys.

Yomi 1st edition is awesome & worth every penny of it's price to me right now.

If there is a Yomi 2nd edition that's even better and also worth it at some future point, that would also be great - whether or not it's a total new edition or updates or whatever. It happens all the time in all types of games! Boardgames, videogames, card games, minatures games - they all release updates and new editions all the time.
As long as improvements are being made, I'm really happy with that. The only way it would be bad is if they somehow screw up and take Yomi to a different place where I dont enjoy a new edition... But I don't think that's very likely at all given the pedigree.
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Jools Thomas
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Remy77077 wrote:
I don't quite get some of you guys.

Yomi 1st edition is awesome & worth every penny of it's price to me right now.


I get where you're coming from Rik though some of us are already a little inundated with great games to play. I'm in no rush to buy new (and in this case, expensive) games when I (and my friends) already have so many neglected ones.
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Michael Marvosh
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Remy77077 wrote:
I don't quite get some of you guys.


Do you want to? I'd be happy to have that conversation.
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Alejandro Magno
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Questions:

-If Sirlin has to make the decision of improving the game or not. You prefer Sirlin not to improve the game?

-If Sirlin decides to do some changes to the game, is it better for you if the number of changes is kept at minimum or once there are changes, the amount of changes is irrelevant to you?
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Michael Marvosh
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Waterd wrote:
-If Sirlin has to make the decision of improving the game or not. You prefer Sirlin not to improve the game?


This is a false dichotomy. Of course I prefer that he improve the game. I just prefer that he do it to the greatest extent possible before releasing it to the public.

Waterd wrote:
-If Sirlin decides to do some changes to the game, is it better for you if the number of changes is kept at minimum or once there are changes, the amount of changes is irrelevant to you?


Good question. I don't think the amount of changes are relevant to me, so long as I am able to play the new version of the game of the same component quality as my old version. If this means updated components, I would be happy to pay a little for those components. If it means an entirely new copy of the game, I would be much less enthusiastic about that. Does that make sense?
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Alejandro Magno
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Quote:
This is a false dichotomy. Of course I prefer that he improve the game. I just prefer that he do it to the greatest extent possible before releasing it to the public.

He already did that, so my question have nothing to do with it.
So it's not a false dichotomy. Because your unclear Third option, doesn't exist.
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Michael Marvosh
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Waterd wrote:
Quote:
This is a false dichotomy. Of course I prefer that he improve the game. I just prefer that he do it to the greatest extent possible before releasing it to the public.

He already did that, so my question have nothing to do with it.
So it's not a false dichotomy. Because your unclear Third option, doesn't exist.


Ah, you were asking specifically in reference to this game. I misunderstood. In that case, I would say that I would like him to improve it only insofar as can be done without requiring a new version of the game. I think his current plan (as far as I understand it--his latest post is a little old) to only update character cards seems very reasonable.
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Alejandro Magno
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I would like to see other people's opinion.
I'm very sad about this because that means sirlin probably will comply and we are gonna have a worse game than what we could have because of this.
I hope most other people think differently.
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Michael Marvosh
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Waterd wrote:
I would like to see other people's opinion.
I'm very sad about this because that means sirlin probably will comply and we are gonna have a worse game than what we could have because of this.
I hope most other people think differently.


I would imagine Sirlin has a difficult task in trying to appease the apparently two different audiences for his games. One the one hand are people like you, who seem to care mainly about the continual improvement of the game system (so that it is consistently as highly competitive as possible), and on the other hand are people like me, who also care about the system, yes, but who care at least as much about the physical product, it's appearance, consistency, and sustained viability.

I like Sirlin's games, especially Yomi, but I would like to feel that purchasing from him in the future won't result in me being forgotten later on down the road when newer editions of the same game are released that obsolete my version.

Probably what I will do in the future is purchase his Print and Play versions, so that updates don't hurt as much (psychologically). But he does such a good job of producing a nice product, that will also be difficult. Ah, well, these are first-world problems, I suppose.
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Noway Jose
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this game is begging to come out on iOS multiplayer bluetooth/wi-fi IMAGINE the awesomeness
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Rik Newman
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Drinkdrawers wrote:
Remy77077 wrote:
I don't quite get some of you guys.


Do you want to? I'd be happy to have that conversation.


I think we're having it now

Drinkdrawers wrote:

I would imagine Sirlin has a difficult task in trying to appease the apparently two different audiences for his games. One the one hand are people like you, who seem to care mainly about the continual improvement of the game system (so that it is consistently as highly competitive as possible), and on the other hand are people like me, who also care about the system, yes, but who care at least as much about the physical product, it's appearance, consistency, and sustained viability.

I like Sirlin's games, especially Yomi, but I would like to feel that purchasing from him in the future won't result in me being forgotten later on down the road when newer editions of the same game are released that obsolete my version.


I appreciate you expanding your thoughts on this, and I think you're right with regards to Sirlin's position. But I don't think I fully understand your 'audience' still. If you're not into being competitive with the latest (& hopefully greatest) version of a game, then why do you care if a 2nd edition comes along that 'obsoletes' your older version... when you can still play it just fine? To me, it's not actually 'obsolete' in any tangible sense. Nor are you 'forgotten' in any tangible sense.

To me, it's like being mad StarCraft II got made (or Street Fighter 4) or any new version of a game ever.

I guess I don't quite understand why a future version of a game bothers you regarding the product you've already got. I understand why you care about sustained viability, appearance etc, but don't see how a future version will damage those things, for the 1st edition as it stands. It's even more the case that a physical product is "undamaged", as unlike an online videogame you've got everything you need to create games yourself (no need for online architecture etc).

The thing that would bother me most is if those later releases are actually subjectively worse than the older games (this is a legitimate complaint at SCII, SF4 and their ilk - do they actually improve on the older games for your taste in games?).

I'm guessing that there is some more intangible sense of obsoletion & 'being forgotten' caused by a newer version that bothers you? Does that bother you about all types of games though? Or are board/card games somehow unique to you?

I've got really old editions of some board games & miniatures games (mainly GW ones as that was what I was playing back then!), but those are still valuable to me & don't really get upset about new editions happening, just that those new editions actually often tend to be worse is what bothers me. Although conversely that adds to the value to me of the older editions I own!

Another example for video game updates that Capcom does that annoy so many people, I personally don't mind as long as they are actual improvements for my taste. So, taking SF4 updates as an example.

Super Street Fighter 4 - fine. It was a better game for me than 'vanilla' Street Fighter 4.
Super Street Fighter 4 AE - awful - worse character balance and leading to the dominant gameplay being far less to my taste.
Super Street Fighter 4 AE 2012 patch - again, fine. As it actually improved things again for my taste.

Waterd wrote:
I would like to see other people's opinion.
I'm very sad about this because that means sirlin probably will comply and we are gonna have a worse game than what we could have because of this.
I hope most other people think differently.


I'm definitely with you. I wouldn't really care if Yomi 2 totally replaced everything I'd already bought, as long as it's the best game it possibly can be. Yomi 1 would be still be a very awesome game anyway for my taste! And if I didn't like Yomi 2, or couldn't afford it or whatever, I'd just carry on playing Yomi 1.

Jools wrote:

I get where you're coming from Rik though some of us are already a little inundated with great games to play. I'm in no rush to buy new (and in this case, expensive) games when I (and my friends) already have so many neglected ones.


I totally understand this problem though Jools!

Hypothetical example for me would be - if I believed Street Fighter 5 was going to come out soon and I felt I didn't really have the time to play much of a Street Fighter game (but still wanted one), I would probably prefer to hang on and wait until SF5 came along, rather than go with the current SF4 version.
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Rik Newman
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Boze wrote:
this game is begging to come out on iOS multiplayer bluetooth/wi-fi IMAGINE the awesomeness


... And it's coming out on iOS in the next few months! cool
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