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Next War: Korea» Forums » General

Subject: Given the real world situation... rss

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Kirk Shelley
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Does anyone have a sense in how well this game functions as a simulation as oppose to simply being a well balanced game? Are the available military forces portrayed accurately?
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Dave
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kshelley wrote:
Does anyone have a sense in how well this game functions as a simulation as oppose to simply a well balanced game? Are the available military forces portrayed accurately?


Collapse scenario. Sorry, Mitchell, I've been a lazy playtester!
 
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Mitchell Land
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boyinblue1 wrote:
kshelley wrote:
Does anyone have a sense in how well this game functions as a simulation as oppose to simply a well balanced game? Are the available military forces portrayed accurately?


Collapse scenario. Sorry, Mitchell, I've been a lazy playtester!


No worries.

As for the OP, the DPRK supply situation is probably overstated for current events as the game assumes they've somewhat rectifed those issues.
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Pete Atack
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Agreed - I think the NorKs as portrayed in the game are far too mobile for what they would achieve today (and probably ever).

I think the ROK Army is also a little underestimated. As an example - Northern tank units are not only more powerful, but have a higher efficiency. I don't think either is accurate today or in the future.
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Mitchell Land
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Pete Atack wrote:
Agreed - I think the NorKs as portrayed in the game are far too mobile for what they would achieve today (and probably ever).

I think the ROK Army is also a little underestimated. As an example - Northern tank units are not only more powerful, but have a higher efficiency. I don't think either is accurate today or in the future.


I struggled with that some. The basic reasoning came down to the DPRK mech forces getting the more of and the best stuff from clothes to food to ammo. Plus, the ROKA, while planning the switch to a more flexible BCT-like structure hadn't, at the time, even really started, and they were having budgetary issues slowing the transformation down.
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Kirk Shelley
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This becomes an interesting situation because wargaming is a relatively new hobby. The essence of the question I have is, do we as grognards have the potential access to deeper insights to the strategic and tactical situations? For example, at the beginning of World War II could a wargamer have looked at the Western map noticed the vulnerability through the Ardennes forest.

I know professional military people were studying the situation but a gamer often has has a unique perspective. We often try to "think outside the box", in effect, pushes new rules to their limit, and "game" the situation...
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My 2 cents. In order for a game to accurately predict a "what if" present day conflict, it would have to be magnitudes more complex than even the most grongard games available.

My reasoning is as follows. Any model or simulation is an abstration. For example, lets say we wanted to simulate the capabiltiies of a battleship. The only true way to 100% accurately model that battleship would be to build an exact clone of the ship. Even building a 3/4 scale model of it would lose some realism. Now making the translation to hex and counters, and coming up with a ruleset, involves huge amounts of abstraction, and guesswork. Ultimately our biases and blind spots are built into the rules.
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Scott
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I can't comment about this game specifically, but this is something Mark Herman has discussed. I don't think there is a game out there that perfectly models every aspect of a conflict. Instead there are usually certain aspects that are meant to be modeled accurately while other parts are abstracted. The key to getting something meaningful out of a game is understanding what the game is trying to accomplish. A generic example would be Combat Commander and ASL. While I don't find CC:E to be realistic, it serves as a good example because the two games are very different; however, at first glance the seem very similar.
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Mitchell Land
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For what it's worth, I just submitted an article to Rodger MacGowan for inclusion in a future C3i on what I think players need to alter in order to represent a current KPA/KPAF capability model.
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Kirk Shelley
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Thank you! That will be a very interesting article to read
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