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Arctic Scavengers» Forums » General

Subject: Some questions, some musings. rss

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Travis R. Chance
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So, I have been dying to get this for some time. I like deck builders; I am obsessed with post-apoc as a theme, in general, the game looked like a fresh take in both of these camps.

First, and I have commented in another thread, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for the designer, with the game having been in publishing limbo, to come out with a slew of typo issues. There is the whole little box insert organizer stating 20 instead of 14. The Key Concepts breakdown in the rules, and on the little tile, is partially punctuated. The you may NOT play multiple actions is prob the most glaring. And I found another one today: Under the Dig action breakdown, it ends with: As with other actions, draw may only be used once per round.

There is a sentence that feels like it may be off to me under Hire. The last sentence in bold, why is 'hire' italicized? It appears the precedent throughout the rules is to do this with the actions, but, in this instance, it almost feels as if the word 'one' here should be done so, to reinforce this. Again, I am prob wrong, so word nerds, start foaming.

I will never understand how these things make it to print, but not a huge deal. The game looks nice enough, and, as I stated, I dig the theme enough that this is easily overlooked. Thanks to the diligence of the designer as well for being so candid concerning these issues.

Last complaint, not so crazy about the drumstick icon for food, or the overused/reworked Black Panther fist, but that's just me. They are immediately recognizable.

Now, after all this moaning, I do have a component question: what is the storage cover for again? I have reread the rules, and am admittedly tired, but I can't seem to pin this down.

Lastly, I just wanted to reiterate, not trying to punish the publisher here by bringing up the above issues. My true intention is that, were it to be reprinted, or to see an expansion, these issues perhaps could be addressed with updated components. I was at my FLGS yesterday to pick this up and people were stoked that it had finally arrived; I am glad I had the foresight to reserve a copy!!!

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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
So, I have been dying to get this for some time. I like deck builders; I am obsessed with post-apoc as a theme, in general, the game looked like a fresh take in both of these camps.

Excellent!

Action Phase wrote:
First, and I have commented in another thread, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for the designer, with the game having been in publishing limbo, to come out with a slew of typo issues. There is the whole little box insert organizer stating 20 instead of 14. The Key Concepts breakdown in the rules, and on the little tile, is partially punctuated. The you may NOT play multiple actions is prob the most glaring. And I found another one today: Under the Dig action breakdown, it ends with: As with other actions, draw may only be used once per round.

OK, I feel the need to jump on this particular grenade. The mistake of stating '20' vs '14' is totally my fault. Earlier today, I even managed to track down an e-mail from last year where I made the mistake. I also managed to miss the use of the word NOT and the use of the word 'Draw' under the 'Dig' paragraph. In fairness, there were 2 other people also reading the rules and looking for typos, but it was still ultimately my responsibility to find all of those errors. Please accept my sincere apologies. cry

Action Phase wrote:
There is a sentence that feels like it may be off to me under Hire. The last sentence in bold, why is 'hire' italicized? It appears the precedent throughout the rules is to do this with the actions, but, in this instance, it almost feels as if the word 'one' here should be done so, to reinforce this. Again, I am prob wrong, so word nerds, start foaming.

I see what you mean. You are correct, that actions are italicized, which is why it is correct in the rules. But to your point about what FEELS right, I think the answer to that would be to underline the word one to provide it with the proper emphasis.

Action Phase wrote:
I will never understand how these things make it to print, but not a huge deal. The game looks nice enough, and, as I stated, I dig the theme enough that this is easily overlooked. Thanks to the diligence of the designer as well for being so candid concerning these issues.

My pleasure.

Action Phase wrote:
Last complaint, not so crazy about the drumstick icon for food, or the overused/reworked Black Panther fist, but that's just me. They are immediately recognizable.

You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time....

Action Phase wrote:
Now, after all this moaning, I do have a component question: what is the storage cover for again? I have reread the rules, and am admittedly tired, but I can't seem to pin this down.

Flip the storage cover over and it explains its use. Basically, it supports a mechanism for proving that you are placing the correct type of card into a given building (i.e. people into Bunkers, tools into Armory, and medicine into Pharmacy). The rules don't explicitly mention it because you can play with an assumption of honesty and a lack of incompetence. The truth is that some people are slimy and need the check and more importantly people will make mistakes. I have had numerous arguments with people wanting to store a Medic in the Pharmacy. By using the cover you can quickly identify for others (and yourself) that you are storing the correct card in a given building.

Action Phase wrote:
Lastly, I just wanted to reiterate, not trying to punish the publisher here by bringing up the above issues. My true intention is that, were it to be reprinted, or to see an expansion, these issues perhaps could be addressed with updated components.

Duly noted. We will continue to update the rules PDF on Rio's site and will certainly make sure that future releases resolve the issue. Thanks so much for the feedback!

Action Phase wrote:
I was at my FLGS yesterday to pick this up and people were stoked that it had finally arrived; I am glad I had the foresight to reserve a copy!!!

Very nice!!
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Travis R. Chance
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So the storage cover isn't really a functional component, or rather, there is only 1, so it won't be something everyone can use, right?

Also, question about gaining contested resources: it says when you gain them not let other players see. So do you place them facedown into your discard pile? Just wanted to see what the intended method was.
 
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Mike Cooper
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Action Phase wrote:
So the storage cover isn't really a functional component, or rather, there is only 1, so it won't be something everyone can use, right?

Also, question about gaining contested resources: it says when you gain them not let other players see. So do you place them facedown into your discard pile? Just wanted to see what the intended method was.


Not so much facedown, as just hidden under the other cards. No use letting people know ahead of time what you have.
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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
So the storage cover isn't really a functional component, or rather, there is only 1, so it won't be something everyone can use, right?

You don't really need more than one. Its easy enough to grab the storage cover from the center of the table, use it to show the card type, place the card under the building, and then return the cover to the center of the table.

Action Phase wrote:

Also, question about gaining contested resources: it says when you gain them not let other players see. So do you place them facedown into your discard pile? Just wanted to see what the intended method was.


It's exactly what Mike said. Personally, I like to take my acquired card, place it under the cards I just used, and then put that whole stack face-up on my discard pile.
 
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Travis R. Chance
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I assume if your discard is empty though, you would place it facedown.
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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
I assume if your discard is empty though, you would place it facedown.

I never have that situation. As I described, above, I take the cards I just used for digging or hunting / hiring or fighting to 'hide' the card I just acquired.
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Travis R. Chance
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One may also phrasing of the game end is a tad confusing, as 'when all contested cards are won' may be misinterpreted as having to dig through the junkyard to find the ones shuffled in by way of a tie. Unless this is in fact the case, then saying, 'when the contested resources pile is empty...'
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
One may also phrasing of the game end is a tad confusing, as 'when all contested cards are won' may be misinterpreted as having to dig through the junkyard to find the ones shuffled in by way of a tie. Unless this is in fact the case, then saying, 'when the contested resources pile is empty...'

Haha. That sounds like a fun variant!! But no, the game is intended to finish with a Skirmish for the final card in the pile of Contested Resources. Nice catch.
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Travis R. Chance
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I have a new thread up if you don't mind chiming in with some examples.
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Travis R. Chance
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In the rules, when it says at the beginning of each turn remove 1 card (time) from each building, this should say each of 'your' buildings, as it could be misinterpreted.

I finally played this today, enjoyed it a lot, but def think this rule book needs a big edit; lots of vague terminology. My opponent today was not satisfied with the reply I received (from the designer) regarding the timing of Saboteur and Sniper--these are def nice, complex timing mechanics that warrant far more explanation than what is given in the rules.

I know, I am harping.
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
In the rules, when it says at the beginning of each turn remove 1 card (time) from each building, this should say each of 'your' buildings, as it could be misinterpreted.

I finally played this today, enjoyed it a lot, but def think this rule book needs a big edit; lots of vague terminology. My opponent today was not satisfied with the reply I received (from the designer) regarding the timing of Saboteur and Sniper--these are def nice, complex timing mechanics that warrant far more explanation than what is given in the rules.

I know, I am harping.


I appreciate the feedback. It's a delicate balance between providing sufficient guidance and overwhelming people with a thick rulebook. The rulebook is already fairly beefy as it stands. I'll certainly take your input to heart and see about elaborating on Sniper and Saboteur timing in the next release.

As for the language on bulidings, it is already there. At the top of page 14, step 7, the rulebook clearly states that a card is removed from each building.

Thanks so much.
 
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Travis R. Chance
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Regarding the buildings, you just restated what is vague in your reply. Unless your intention is that, during EACH player's turn, remove a counter from EACH building, as well as my own? So the turn after I play a building, the next player would remove 1 counter from my building, as well as all others? If this is the rule, then, yes, I stand corrected. I was fairly sure that a player would only do this for their own buildings, as in a game with, let's say 4-5 players, by the time it got back around to your turn, you would have no counters on the building, thereby making the counters and using tribe members (and/toolkits) not nearly as dynamic as a mechanic.

As it reads, if I played a building with 4 time counters, in a five player game, the building would have no time counters on it by the time it came back around to my turn. (The next player goes, removes the time counter from my building, and any others in play. Then the next player would do the same, etc.)

On the whole, while I like the game, the theme, and think you did a great job with taking deck-building somewhere new and unique, the information that is needed should be included with the game, not found by way of researching/posting in forums to clarify. Most of these typos/vague entries could be seen as equally or more overwhelming for someone trying to learn the game from this guide. Much more clear statements would take almost the same character count. Example: stating the end game occurs with each contested resource is won (which is not accurate) is as long, if not longer than stating 'The end game occurs immediately after the contested resource pile is empty.'

Again, sorry to beat you up about this, but I found the rules to be rather lacking as a tool for learning and explaining the game.
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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It should be remove a card from each of your own buildings, not everyone's buildings.
 
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Travis R. Chance
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Exactly my point; you just use the word 'each.' As it reads, it would be completely understandable for a new player to think that, if he had played a building, on his next turn, he would not only remove a counter from his building(s), but from 'each' other building as well. Reread the sentence. You do not specify which building lose counters; you say 'each building,' as in each and every one in play, period.

Additionally, it is somewhat odd to numerically itemize a step that happens on your next turn. Steps 7-9 should be grouped out of these bullet points, in a standalone paragraph regarding building completion, not as a step on how to build a building. A lot can happen from when you first play a building to your next turn, so make this a numeric checklist doesn't really work here.

I think the issue with the rules is, you know what they are meant to say, but they just don't exactly spell that out as clearly for those who do not know the game. Now, I could take it on faith/common sense that this is what was you 'intended' to be written, but, with games, missing a minor detail like this could be the entire difference in a good or bad first impression. For any rules or instructions, I would say that outright stating, as clearly and deliberately as possible, what each and every intended rule should be will always be more helpful than assuming people will suss out the right answer for the sake of saving pages that were probably necessary. In my opinion, you should repost an updated rulebook/FAQ clarifying these issues. Just because I am the only posting on the subject doesn't mean that I am the only one scratching my head in spots.
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
In my opinion, you should repost an updated rulebook/FAQ clarifying these issues. Just because I am the only posting on the subject doesn't mean that I am the only one scratching my head in spots.

I do not own the license to Arctic Scavengers (I sold it to RGG) and I do not have the source for the Rulebook. I have no control over posting an updated rulebook on Rio Grande's site and I certainly can't run off and post my own. I have raised these issues to RGG (in fact, I raised them last week when you initially mentioned them). At this point, I must continue to use various online forums like this one to provide clarity on rules interpretations.

Thank you for your input.
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Travis R. Chance
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Apologies if my posts have felt aggressive in any way; this was not my intention. If I didn't think the game was cool, I wouldn't bother. I am merely trying to encourage addressing these issues to help the game succeed in the hands of new consumers.
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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Action Phase wrote:
Apologies if my posts have felt aggressive in any way; this was not my intention. If I didn't think the game was cool, I wouldn't bother. I am merely trying to encourage addressing these issues to help the game succeed in the hands of new consumers.

No worries Travis. I appreciate the enthusiasm and I share your interest in improving the clarity of the rules. I greatly appreciate your input and I will incorporate them into an updated rulebook at my earliest opportunity to do so. Thanks.
 
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