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DoD presentation classifies Catholics, evangelicals as religious extremists

Maybe they went a little to far this time. What do you think?
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bobby_5150 wrote:
DoD presentation classifies Catholics, evangelicals as religious extremists

Maybe they went a little to far this time. What do you think?


Having been raised in the catholic church, I would say that sounds about accurate.
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Chad Ellis
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bobby_5150 wrote:
DoD presentation classifies Catholics, evangelicals as religious extremists

Maybe they went a little to far this time. What do you think?


I think that they didn't actually do what your link claims. The actual presentation is linked from the article and it doesn't identify Catholics or Evangelicals as extremists. Instead it says that religious extremism isn't limited to any particular faith and that all faiths have some members who see their faith and traditions as the only right way and that their beliefs are superior to those of all others.

The slide does seem a bit off, but it's at best a total oversimplification to say that the presentation calls Catholics or Evangelicals as a group extremists.

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Dan Schaeffer
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
bobby_5150 wrote:
DoD presentation classifies Catholics, evangelicals as religious extremists

Maybe they went a little to far this time. What do you think?


I think that they didn't actually do what your link claims. The actual presentation is linked from the article and it doesn't identify Catholics or Evangelicals as extremists. Instead it says that religious extremism isn't limited to any particular faith and that all faiths have some members who see their faith and traditions as the only right way and that their beliefs are superior to those of all others.

The slide does seem a bit off, but it's at best a total oversimplification to say that the presentation calls Catholics or Evangelicals as a group extremists.



This is the direct text of the commentary that accompanies that slide (which appears to be the speaking points for whoever was giving the presentation):

Quote:
Extremism is a complex phenomenon; it is defined as beliefs, attitudes, feelings, actions, or
strategies of a character far removed from the “ordinary.” Because “ordinary” is subjective,
no religious group would label itself extreme or its doctrine “extremism.” However,
religious extremism is not limited to any single religion, ethnic group, or region of the
world; every religion has some followers that believe that their beliefs, customs and
traditions are the only “right way” and that all others are practicing their faith the “wrong
way,” seeing and believing that their faith/religion superior to all others.


Despite the laundry list of religions on the slide, the next two slides are exclusively about Islamic extremists and Islamic terrorist organizations. (Prior to the slide above, there are several slides about neo-nazi and white supremacist extremists in the military.)

People are going to get offended, but I think that in the context of this presentation, the slide was not labeling all Catholics and evangelicals as "extremists."
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John Burt
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I thought the answer was:
They all make up shit to prove they are right.
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Tobias Strobe
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Would you say that "The Washington Free Beacon" is a reliable and unbiased source?
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An aversion to pluralised verbs?
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Boaty McBoatface
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I think (a others have said) it says nothing of the kind. I think it is fair to see that there are extremists in any faith (or denomination).
 
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Isaac Citrom
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I don't think so, otherwise you guys must have done really poorly on your English SATs.

If you're going to list Kahana, a Jewish based extremist group, then it doesn't jibe with "Catholicism". The correct similar classification would be Judaism a a whole.

Jewish "ultra-Orthodox" is no more religiously extreme than Evangelical Christianity nor any other denomination of a religion such as Sunni Muslims.

I think the author seems muddled in his thinking. Or, just took 2 minutes to throw toegther a quick politically correct cover-my-ass list as a pre-amble to his main pages on islamofascism.

Furthermore, this is not about US military policy. It is about one guy's poor authorship, especially in light of his biased anti-religion sources.
.
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Steve Cates
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How is believing you are right and everyone else is wrong equate to extremism. The round-earthers must also be extremists.

I would think that violence must be the issue, not belief.
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Boaty McBoatface
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ironcates wrote:
How is believing you are right and everyone else is wrong equate to extremism. The round-earthers must also be extremists.

I would think that violence must be the issue, not belief.
I would have thought that having an extreme view makes you an extremist. Also if you believe you are right and everyone else is wrong, and expect others to live by what you believe that makes you an extremist (forcing your views on others). If you think you are right and everyone else is wrong, despite the evidence, that makes you an extremist (you refuse to admit you are wrong).
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We're kind of into semantics but for me the value in our current use of 'extremism' is to say bad people who advocate or take part in unsanctioned violence that infringes the human rights of others based on an ideological view point (religious or not).

The key to me is the willingness to use, advocate or condone force, outwith the legitimacy that comes from a code of law.

Good Christians like good Muslims, etc; wish me no harm, despite believing that I am making a terrible mistake pursuing my atheism. Ideally, they'd have me realise their truths but recognise my right to personal autonomy. That's not to say they won't protest when they feel that the state is infringing on their personal autonomy or that they won't try to enlist me to their faith. To believe you're right and others are wrong is fine provided your freedom to believe is peaceful and does not directly harm others (wee addition to John Mill's On Liberty - it's all coming back to me).
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monkeyhandz wrote:
We're kind of into semantics but for me the value in our current use of 'extremism' is to say bad people who advocate or take part in unsanctioned violence that infringes the human rights of others based on an ideological view point (religious or not).

The key to me is the willingness to use, advocate or condone force, outwith the legitimacy that comes from a code of law.


So my question is... would the Tea Party qualify? They don't preach violence and they don't infringe on the rights of others, but they do use very disruptive tactics to try and promote their absolutist views.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
We're kind of into semantics but for me the value in our current use of 'extremism' is to say bad people who advocate or take part in unsanctioned violence that infringes the human rights of others based on an ideological view point (religious or not).

The key to me is the willingness to use, advocate or condone force, outwith the legitimacy that comes from a code of law.


So my question is... would the Tea Party qualify? They don't preach violence and they don't infringe on the rights of others, but they do use very disruptive tactics to try and promote their absolutist views.
Is such an absolutist view of the tea party extremism?

As it's not a real movement, but rather a very lose association of people with similar (but not exactly the same) ideals, and with no central leadership the answer would be...

Some Tea Partiers are extremists, other are not. But as a movement it is not extra, but it is willing to cover extremists under it's umbrella (thought it might be fairer to say it makes common cause with then).
 
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Rich S
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GameCrossing wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
We're kind of into semantics but for me the value in our current use of 'extremism' is to say bad people who advocate or take part in unsanctioned violence that infringes the human rights of others based on an ideological view point (religious or not).

The key to me is the willingness to use, advocate or condone force, outwith the legitimacy that comes from a code of law.


So my question is... would the Tea Party qualify? They don't preach violence and they don't infringe on the rights of others, but they do use very disruptive tactics to try and promote their absolutist views.


Kinda like the Occupy Wall Street movement...oh wait.

Maybe more like the worker's unions.
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Junior McSpiffy
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phosrik wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
We're kind of into semantics but for me the value in our current use of 'extremism' is to say bad people who advocate or take part in unsanctioned violence that infringes the human rights of others based on an ideological view point (religious or not).

The key to me is the willingness to use, advocate or condone force, outwith the legitimacy that comes from a code of law.


So my question is... would the Tea Party qualify? They don't preach violence and they don't infringe on the rights of others, but they do use very disruptive tactics to try and promote their absolutist views.


Kinda like the Occupy Wall Street movement...oh wait.

Maybe more like the worker's unions.


Well done... you've picked a side, and now that you have, that side is always right and anything not on that side is always wrong.

Surprise... I'm a conservative. You won't catch me speaking well of labor unions as they are currently comprised. But just because I see the evils and ills of one particular philosophy, it does not blind me to the evils and ills that goes along with the philosophy that I back nor the individuals who profess to share it as well. Try it sometime*.




* And no, "the problem is that people aren't devoted enough to the purest form of conservatism" doesn't qualify.
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Although the Tea Party is noted for their unyielding views on certain things and their tendency to ignore or try to discredit facts that don't support their claims ("I know the truth! How dare you try to deceive me with your lying facts!"), as a whole they are not dangerous in the sense that they're likely to go all Timothy McVeigh on us and start sending high explosives at the people they disagree with.

Now are there some who might be considering that? Possibly. There's no way to really know until someone tries to pull something off (and hopefully fails).

To my mind, they represent a moderate evil. I personally think the bulk of them are being duped and don't recognize the full consequences of what they advocate. But they would say the same thing about me, too.
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Is the answer to the question posed somethong along the lines of "They all believe in some sort of omnipotent magic-man who still needs their help to do lots of nasty things"?
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Michael Hopcroft wrote:
To my mind, they represent a moderate evil.


You just called the Tea Party "moderate." They are gonna be soooo pissed.
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Chad Ellis
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Alaren wrote:
This is just a terrible presentation.

"Morman." Hah.


You're mistakenly assuming that's a typo and should have been Mormon. In fact, the Morman (formerly Moreman) believe God commands all human males to eat lots of food in order to gain weight.
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William Boykin
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Alaren wrote:
This is just a terrible presentation.

"Morman." Hah.


You're mistakenly assuming that's a typo and should have been Mormon. In fact, the Morman (formerly Moreman) believe God commands all human males to eat lots of food in order to gain weight.


I've been a member of that church most of my life and never known about it!!!!!

Who'da thunk?

Can we push to make Morman a minor deity here on the Geek? Maybe we could have Chapel services at BGG.Con. The sacramental meal is pork chops at Hard 8.

Who's with me?

Praise Morman!!!!

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
The sacramental meal is pork chops at Hard 8.

Who's with me?

I've affiliated for less. Let's do it.
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Darilian wrote:

Maybe we could have Chapel services at BGG.Con.


My services are always available to those who seek it.
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