Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Caylus» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Should I take my own production building? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jerry Wang
United States
Flushing
New York
flag msg tools
mbmb
In this thread I wish to address the question of "Should I take my own production building?" Some players have posited that it is better to let your opponent take your buildings. This analysis will show that is not the case. 'Larger' production buildings are more desirable picks regardless of who builds them.

Definitions:
production building ('producer')- any of the four neutral pink buildings that produce a single cube (a 'single'), four wood buildings that produce a pair of cubes (a 'double'), or three grey buildings that produce three cubes (a 'triple').

Caveats:
The scenario analyses I describe below do not take into account two commonly influencial factors. The first is 'provost risk.' This is defined as the risk that a given role will not activate due to the final position of the provost. The second is 'cube type scarcity/abundance.' Cube type scarcity occurs when one of the cubes types (food, wood, stone, cloth) has an elavated relative value due to a temporary or longer-term shortage. Conversely, a cube type can have a depressed value if it is so common that little can be done with additional cubes in the near future. I am purposefully ignoring those two factors to keep the analysis simple.

The 'market value' of a cube:
Generically speaking, the 'market value' of a cube is equal to one prestige point per cube. This is based of the 'conversion' of trading three cubes for three prestige points in the final section of the castle. There are many extraneous factors that can increase (conversion to a six-point grey building, earlier castle builds, jousting, etc.) or decrease (filled castle section) this value. But, they fall outside the scope of this discussion and will be ignored herein.

Scenarios:
The following are four 'net point' analyses of taking production buildings in a two-player game when you have the first selection against a generic 'he' opponent.

Notes:
In comparing the following role choices, these picks can fall at any 'relative' pick position on a given turn. In other words, they might be picks 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, etc. depending on the exact number and nature of producers in play. For example, the case where you own two wood producers and your oppoent owns one would fall under scenario A (owning a lone double). The point is that the comparisons are for consecutive picks in a two-player game.

A) You own a lone double
1) You take your own double (he takes a single)
You get: 2 cube(s), 0 point(s)
He gets: 1 cube(s), 0 point(s)
Net: +1

2) You take a single (he takes your double)
You get: 1 cube(s), 1 point(s)
He gets: 2 cube(s), 0 point(s)
Net: 0

B) He owns a lone double
1) You take his double (he takes a single)
You get: 2 cube(s), 0 point(s)
He gets: 1 cube(s), 1 point(s)
Net: 0

2) You take a single (he takes his double)
You get: 1 cube(s), 0 point(s)
He gets: 2 cube(s), 0 point(s)
Net: -1

C) You own a lone triple, he owns a lone double
1) You take your triple (he takes his double)
You get: 3 cube(s), 0 point(s)
He gets: 2 cube(s), 0 point(s)
Net: +1

2) You take his double (he takes your triple)
You get: 3 cube(s), 1 point(s)
He gets: 3 cube(s), 1 point(s)
Net: 0

D) He owns a lone triple, you own a lone double
1) You take his triple (he takes your double)
You get: 3 cube(s), 1 point(s)
He gets: 3 cube(s), 1 point(s)
Net: 0

2) You take your double (he takes his triple)
You get: 2 cube(s), 0 point(s)
He gets: 3 cube(s), 0 point(s)
Net: -1

Conclusion:
As you can see from the scenarios above, taking a triple over a double (or a double over a single) is the more productive action regardless of ownership. Thus, after building that production building, follow it up by choosing it!

BSW as 'tarantino' and 'mktteacher'
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Wang
United States
Flushing
New York
flag msg tools
mbmb
[The system is playing havoc with the length]
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Bradley
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Scotland
flag msg tools
And of course you only ever pay 1 coin to take your own buildings. A major factor in some games.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luc de la Riv Nor
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Your theory of 1 cube = 1vp is true in 2 players game but false in a game with more player.

In these kind of game you have to think more "FOR YOUSELF" than "AGAINST OPPONNENT" and its true for the money too.

Example : You have build a stone porduction building and player X a wood one :

--> you both play on your building --> you gain 3 cubes, player X get 2 cubes,player W,Y,Z get nothing

--> you both play on each other building --> you gain 3 cubes & a VP, X get 3 cubes & VP, player W,Y,Z get nothing

Also, leave your building open help also to pass last when its crucial to control the provost BECAUSE PLAYING ON YOUR BUILDING COST ALWAYS 1 no matter how many people have passed. And if you already played on other building they cant do the same.

If
- you control the guild
- there's a player low on cash at the beginning
- Your building are near the prevost

You are in a win-win situation: if they play on your building, you got VP for free if you deny it with guild. If they are afraid to play there, you could play on your building after the player low on cash have to pass and move the provost to be sure to activate it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Jaffee
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think there could be as much if not more discussion as to the "market value" of a cube as there could be about whether it's better to take your own production building.

And of course, the other thing your analysis neglects is the situation... do you NEED two brown and a Pink? Or does 2 Purple help your situation a lot more because you wan't need to build a Residence and get the Jousting field next turn?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Wang
United States
Flushing
New York
flag msg tools
mbmb
I specifically stated that I was ignoring the issue of "cube abundance / cube scarcity." Of course considerations need to change if cubes of one type are more/less useful to you/opponent than another type. That analysis goes deeper than I was interested in exploring with the original post.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Priority for placing workers:
1) Gather resources which help you the most, regardless of who owns the building.
2) All other things being equal, place on buildings you do not own.

The main resource in this game is time. By either placing more workers per turn or gathering more resources per turn, you gain time. Essentially, whomever can place the most effective workers has the advantage. This is why placing a worker on an opponent owned stone farm is better than placing on your wood farm. Likewise, if several players pass and you own no open buildings, your turn is basically over. However, if you do own an open building, that is one more worker placement you gain over your opponents.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.