Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is it me or are some droids overpriced? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Gilbert Martin
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
R2-D2 at 4 points. You need to do a green manoeuver. Ok.
R2-F2 at 3 points. You have to spend your action for the turn. Huh?
R5-D8 at 3 points. You have to spend your action for the turn. Huh?
R5-K6 at 2 points. After spending your target lock. Ok.
R2 astromech at 1 point. Treat all your speed 1 or 2 maneuvers as green maneuvers. Hell yeah!
R5 astromech at 1 point. Turn 1 of your faceup damage card face down in the end phase. Ok.

Does anyone use R2-F2 or R5-D8 ?

Stealth does the same thing as a R2-F2 without having to waste your action.
R5-D8 repairs one of your damage at the cost of your action for the turn. That is after your shields are gone and you've started taking damage. On an X-wing you are only two points from being obliterated. On a Y-wing, you have 4 points left but wouldn't you be better off with one of the other droids? Isn't when you have taken damage the time when you need your actions to evade ennemy fire? Or be sure to kill him before he finishes you off? Compared to R2-D2 who only needs you to do a green maneuver at only one point more to give you another hit point, isn't it a little steep?

I'd like to read what others have to say on that subject.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gib1 wrote:
Stealth does the same thing as a R2-F2 without having to waste your action.


Sure, but stealth also goes away with the first point of damage you take. R2-F2 doesn't. That's (potentially) useful.

As to R5-D8...yeah, I've got no idea why you'd take him over R2-D2.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacob Nushmut
msg tools
Avatar
R2-F2 absolutely sees use. Stealth Device goes away once you get hit. The focus and evade actions only protect you from a single attack. R2-F2 provides protection from every attack you take in a round. If you know that Biggs is going to be absorbing the fire of 5 or 6 imperial ships, R2-F2's action becomes the most powerful action in the game.

I've seen people stick R2-F2 on Luke too, since Luke gets a mini focus effect automatically which works well with an extra evade die.

Dunno about R5-D8.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Morris
Canada
Kelowna
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually just played a game earlier today using Luke, equipped with a Stealth Device and R2-F2. What a beast!!! Granted, the game was against my son who is not the most strategic player, but, paired with Biggs, Luke never took a point of damage all game. I'm definitely trying that combo again soon against someone more experienced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Creed Buhallin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
XanderF wrote:
As to R5-D8...yeah, I've got no idea why you'd take him over R2-D2.

At the very least, because you put R2-D2 on another ship? You can only take one, of course.

I actually think that R5-D8 has more potential on a Y-wing than R2-D2 does. "Just do a green" isn't so bad on an X-wing, but green options on a Y-wing are too limited.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gilbert Martin
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
But I'm back to my original question: Are they overpriced at 3 points?
Especially when they make you unable to take another action in the turn you use their ability?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B.
United States
East Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gib1 wrote:
But I'm back to my original question: Are they overpriced at 3 points?
Especially when they make you unable to take another action in the turn you use their ability?


Short Answer: No.
Long Answer: No, no they're not.

I suspect you just need to get this game on the table more to get a sense of how everything interacts. R2-F2 sees alot of play in competitive builds. R5-K6 is certainly more niche and is really only built for Dutch, but he's a welcomed ally if you can find two points in a Dutch build, which is admittedly harder in a four-ship build.

The only one that might be over-priced is R5-D8, but I'm not so sure it's a matter of his cost or simply the limited and situational usage of his ability that results in his absence from competitive builds. Even at one point, I don't think he'd be run in 100 point games*, as it would still probably be better to take a generic R2 or R5 depending on the ship, assuming you have the point to spend. Moral of the story: it's not his pricing but his limited usefulness.


*Caveat: In smaller games with fewer ships, R5-D8 becomes increasingly better because it's easier to elude enemies while attempting to repair back up to health.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Huhtala
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When I play Biggs, I always outfit him with both R2-F2 and a Stealth Device, then head for the asteroids. It's pretty fun to roll 6 agility dice at range 3 behind an asteroid.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Weiss
United States
South Dakota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Biggs or Luke with F2 and a stealth device are amazing combos. It's well worth the use of the action (and the price) to keep yourself alive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gilbert Martin
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
RogueThirteen wrote:
R5-K6 is certainly more niche and is really only built for Dutch, but he's a welcomed ally if you can find two points in a Dutch build, which is admittedly harder in a four-ship build.


I never said that I thought R5-K6 was overpriced.

As for R5-D8, if its cost wasn't 3 points and your action for the turn, maybe it wouldn't be overpriced. Don't you think?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Yeah... I see what you did there.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Brian1981 wrote:
When I play Biggs, I always outfit him with both R2-F2 and a Stealth Device, then head for the asteroids. It's pretty fun to roll 6 agility dice at range 3 behind an asteroid.
*snicker* Yeah, it would be.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Firstname Lastname
Singapore
flag msg tools
Gib1 wrote:
RogueThirteen wrote:
R5-K6 is certainly more niche and is really only built for Dutch, but he's a welcomed ally if you can find two points in a Dutch build, which is admittedly harder in a four-ship build.


I never said that I thought R5-K6 was overpriced.

As for R5-D8, if its cost wasn't 3 points and your action for the turn, maybe it wouldn't be overpriced. Don't you think?


R5-D8 gives you much more flexibility in terms of your maneuvers. The only green maneuvers on the Ywing are all straights, and on the Xwing the best you have is a bank 1. With the R5-D8 you could do things like pull off a hard turn 2 and still be able to (get a chance to) repair yourself.

also, R2D2, crew chewie and R5-D8 are the only ways to actually regain hp in the game, and out of the 3, 2 of them cost 4 points.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B.
United States
East Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gib1 wrote:
RogueThirteen wrote:
R5-K6 is certainly more niche and is really only built for Dutch, but he's a welcomed ally if you can find two points in a Dutch build, which is admittedly harder in a four-ship build.


I never said that I thought R5-K6 was overpriced.

As for R5-D8, if its cost wasn't 3 points and your action for the turn, maybe it wouldn't be overpriced. Don't you think?



Well, the thread title asks the open question of whether or not some of the droids were overpriced, not just the claim that R5-D8 is overpriced (and R5-K6 is one of the least used droids, so I offered him a little defense).

In the sense that you're using "price" to include features of the card beyond its point cost, then yes I would absolutely agree with you that R5-D8 could be improved to make him a better or more tempting upgrade, but I think this could only be accomplished by actually errata'ing his game text, not just by repricing his point cost (how I would use "pricing" issues).

All that said, I don't worry about R5-D8's limited usefulness in 100pt dogfights. I like that FFG is very conservative in how health is healed and in the number of attacks and red dice that ships can muster. Besides, I could imagine R5-D8 being a little more useful in Missions where the defender has some kind of emplacement they are trying to defend (a blockade runner or star destroyer shield generators or something of the like), because in those the ship bearing R5-D8 could pull out of range of the emplacement defenses to fix and then recontinue the attack, if he has the time to do so. Defenders could then decide whether they wanted to send some of their defenders away to pursue the wounded, weak target or if they wanted to hold their defenses together closer around the objective. And so forth.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Scott
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think that R5-D8 is all that bad really. Throw him on a non-unique X or Y with Garven and Dutch as wingmen and suddenly your lowly little X Wing pilot gets essentially two actions per turn, one of which gains health and the other one is a focus or TL (the only two actions that an X could take normally anyway). I'm pretty sure that would earn its 3 points back before the end of most games AND you'll have other named, better droids available to stick on the other ships.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
XanderF wrote:
As to R5-D8...yeah, I've got no idea why you'd take him over R2-D2.

Because R2-D2 is unique and you have more than one ship?

-shnar
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gilbert Martin
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
Thank you all for contributing to this thread.

I hope to start another one that explore another aspect of the game that was not covered before soon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Regarding R5-D8, he's unplayable at 3 points and I'd still question his usefulness at 2 or 1 point. The problem with his cost is threefold: you need to spend your action for a 5/8 chance to remove a face-down damage card. That is, it's conditional as you need to have at least one face-down damage card (and still be alive) for him to do anything (most likely on a Y-wing), and even then he's only 62.5% effective when you use an action. Consider that a Shield Upgrade costs 4, doesn't require an action, and is 100% guaranteed to "remove" (absorb) damage - and doesn't care if its facing up or down. The only time R5-D8 is effective is if you can outrun your opponent and get several chances to heal when no other actions are worth taking... which isn't likely when flying a Y-wing (unless your opponent decides there are more urgent threats - in which case the Y-wing shouldn't be damaged yet) and is rarely a winning strategy in tournament play.

On the other hand, R2-D2 is overpowered at 4. The only answer to him is focused fire for consecutive turns until he is destroyed. Even against lots of enemy ships, he can be difficult to eliminate in timed matches. And he's pretty much invincible late in a match if the opponent is down to 2 ships making him "broken" (and locally banned) for some formats (e.g. < 70 point matches, < 60 minute matches, 2-ship mixed-faction multiplayer games). He'd still be worth playing if he cost 5 and maybe even 6 squad points.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gilbert Martin
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
Agreed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Scott
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
iNano78 wrote:
Regarding R5-D8, he's unplayable at 3 points and I'd still question his usefulness at 2 or 1 point. The problem with his cost is threefold: you need to spend your action for a 5/8 chance to remove a face-down damage card. That is, it's conditional as you need to have at least one face-down damage card (and still be alive) for him to do anything (most likely on a Y-wing), and even then he's only 62.5% effective when you use an action. Consider that a Shield Upgrade costs 4, doesn't require an action, and is 100% guaranteed to "remove" (absorb) damage - and doesn't care if its facing up or down. The only time R5-D8 is effective is if you can outrun your opponent and get several chances to heal when no other actions are worth taking... which isn't likely when flying a Y-wing (unless your opponent decides there are more urgent threats - in which case the Y-wing shouldn't be damaged yet) and is rarely a winning strategy in tournament play. \


I would say agree to disagree here, but I'm not sure that we disagree. You actually make a really great case for R5-D8 on a Y wing here (which is exactly my thoughts for him). Once more, if you're running a 4 ship build with Dutch + Garven + Rookie + Gold then you have the freedom of putting R2D2 on one ship (say an X-Wing) and R5-D8 on the Gold or Dutch who can still take actions (courtesy of Garven and/or Dutch depending on where you put him). Is he going to work in all lists? No. Are there plenty of lists that forego droids all together? Sure. But I think there's a difference between serving a niche purpose and being worthless and I see R5-D8 being niche, but worthwhile.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Pontier
United States
Oak Forest
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gib1 wrote:
But I'm back to my original question: Are they overpriced at 3 points?
Especially when they make you unable to take another action in the turn you use their ability?


If R2-F2 did not require an action, then he should be more expensive than R2-D2. Also, if your Rebel ships only get one action, or only get access to the benefits of one action, then I don't think they are being played correctly. When I've seen Biggs with Stealth and R2-F2, he is paired with Lando, who gives him a second action to also Focus. Garvin, Dutch, and Squad leader can also provide this extra action benefit.

So what if he was priced at 2 points? It could work. He would definitely show up more often.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.