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Axis & Allies: WWI 1914» Forums » Rules

Subject: About Russian Revolution rss

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Robert Schelchshorn
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Hi folks,
what happens to Areas e.g. Sevastopol if such Areas contain only (!) allied troops (e.g. English ones coming from India) while the Revolution happens?
Change these areas to allied control (e.g. U.K. gets from now on IPS from Sevastopol)?

thx in advance,
Rob
 
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Ubergeek
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No, they remain going to the original owner if occupied by an ally (if Russia is still in the war). I read the FAQ and the rules again to be sure. For example, Britain vacates Egypt to fight the Turks. Italy move a unit over into Egypt. Britain still keeps the 2 IPC and not Italy. The only areas that can change IPC at the hand of allies are the minor colonies (not neutral ones) with their own flag AND without a Capitol like Angola, Belgian Congo, etc.
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Robert Schelchshorn
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Hi Walt,
thx for your answer!

>No, they remain going to the original owner if occupied by an ally (if >Russia is still in the war).

Well, that's exactly the problem! After the revolution Russia is not at war any longer! So, I would suppose Russia and the Allies are not allied any longer and I would give e.g. U.K. the IPS from Sevastopol if they occupy it and if there are no Russian troops!

Your thoughts?

Rob
 
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Dave de Vil
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This has changed recently in the FAQ.

The rules now are:

If the tt is CP controlled, the other Allies can capture and control the area.

If the tt is contested, it becomes "shared" between the CPs and Russia. If there are no Russian units present one infantry "Commisar" unit is placed there to represent Bolshevik Russia. Other Allied units must leave on their next turn or be interned (removed). The CPs must leave minimum one infantry in a shared tt at all times.

To quote the FAQ:

Other Allied powers may no longer move units into original Russian territories that are either controlled by Russia or shared between Russia and the Central Powers. Any such units remaining in those territories at the end of their next respective turn will be removed from the board at that time.

I assume this includes tt that are solely occupied by other Allies, as these would be Russian controlled at the time of the Revolution.

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Ubergeek
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Quote:
After the revolution Russia is not at war any longer!


Second to what Dave said. The new FAQ (2 April 2013) clears up exactly what to do if the Russian Revolution occurs. Here's the exact quote from the FAQ regarding it:

Quote:
The Russian Revolution has the following effects:
• Russia will no longer have a turn, and will no longer be considered to be either friend or enemy to any other power.
• Serbia and Romania will be treated as minor neutral powers for the remainder of the game.
• All Russian units outside of original Russian territories will be immediately removed from the board, and Russia will immediately relinquish control of any non-original territories it may hold, including those of formerly aligned minor neutral powers. If units belonging to other Allied powers are in these territories, control will be established using the rules for moving all units on one side out of a contested territory (see “Land Units”, page 15), otherwise these territories will be uncontrolled until another power moves into them and will not mobilize units when entered.
• Any original Russian territories that are contested at the time of the revolution will be considered to be shared for the remainder of the game. Shared territories that have no Russian units in them will each have one Russian infantry added to them to represent Russia's interest in them.
• Attacks may no longer be made by either side in original Russian territories that are either controlled by Russia or shared between Russia and the Central Powers.
• The Central Powers may no longer move units into territories controlled by Russia. Central Powers forces can move into or out of territories shared between them and Russia at any time, but the Central Powers must maintain at least one infantry unit in each such territory at all times. Central Powers do not collect income from shared territories. Rules restricting land unit movement out of contested territories (see “Land Units”, page 15) will not apply to these shared territories.
• Other Allied powers may no longer move units into original Russian territories that are either controlled by Russia or shared between Russia and the Central Powers. Any such units remaining in those territories at the end of their next respective turn will be removed from the board at that time.
• Original Russian territories that are controlled by the Central Powers at the time of the revolution are considered to have no original controller for the remainder of the game. If such a territory is captured by an Allied power, that power takes control rather than returning it to Russia. If such a territory is left without units in it after a battle due to both sides being eliminated, it will not be controlled by any power (place any national control marker on it face down to denote this status) until a power moves units into it.
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Mauro Fiorelli
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Quote:

Second to what Dave said. The new FAQ (2 April 2013) clears up exactly what to do if the Russian Revolution occurs. Here's the exact quote from the FAQ regarding it



Where can we download the FAQ?

thank you
 
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Ubergeek
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It's Krieghund's FAQ and buried on p.14 of the AxisandAllies.org forum:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30272.19...

Note that it's very good but it's not a Wizards of the Coast offical FAQ on the game.
 
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Raymond Flagstone
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In addition to what is written in the original rule book, plus the new FAQ from Krieghund, I've read at least two or three other user variations or interpretations of what happens following the Russian Revolution. I'm feeling awfully dense because I'm even more confused now that I was before.

My son and I are pretty much just ending Russia's participation in the game and ignoring any effect its territories may have on any other units from either power. It doesn't seem to really make much difference in the overall scheme of things anyway. Hard to really know!

If anybody else out there has come up with a way to explain it in a way that a 10-year-old might understand, please share. Thanks.
 
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Ubergeek
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So I'm not sure if you're looking for a more simple explanation of what to do or how to explain to your 10-year-old why Russia is out of the game. If it's the former I'll give it a try. Assuming you meet the following conditions starting at the end of the Russian turn 4:

Quote:
• Three or more territories adjacent to Moscow are controlled by the Central Powers.
• At least one other original Russian territory is controlled by the Central Powers or contested.
• Moscow is controlled by Russia or contested.


1. Any Russian units in areas outside the dark brown ones (Russia including Serbia and Romania) are removed from the board (including naval assets). Those areas, whether Russian owned or contested at the time, revert back to their original owner or the controlling power at that time. The Russians go home to distill vodka.

2. In any dark brown territories (Russia including Serbia and Romania) where there are ONLY Russian and/or Allied units, remove all the units. Nobody gets IPC's for these areas. The essentially remain Russian as part of the armistice deal. The Russians stay home to distill vodka and the Allies get a 3-day pass to go home before being redeployed to other fronts.

3. In any dark brown territories (Russia including Serbia and Romania) that are contested with Russian (with or without Allied units) and any Central Power units, remove all but one Russian infantry as a reminder to show that area was contested. Any remaining Central Power units may remain and/or leave but must leave at least one infantry unit behind. Nobody will gain IPC's from those contested territories. They become the "neutral zone" like in Star Trek.

4. In any dark brown territories (Russia including Serbia and Romania) that were solely occupied by Central Power units, those territories remain claimed by that power and continue to get them IPC's. Those territories may never be attacked again or lost. (Consider that they're out of the war and part of the deal that Russian came to with the CP when the armistice occurs.)

So from then on, like the rules state Russia is removed from the war and the game.

Does that sound about right?
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Walt Mulder wrote:
1. Any Russian units in areas outside the dark brown ones (Russia including Serbia and Romania) are removed from the board (including naval assets). Those areas, whether Russian owned or contested at the time, revert back to their original owner or the controlling power at that time. The Russians go home to distill vodka.

Serbia and Romania are not original Russian territories. They are treated as minor neutral powers for the remainder of the game.

Walt Mulder wrote:
2. In any dark brown territories (Russia including Serbia and Romania) where there are ONLY Russian and/or Allied units, remove all the units. Nobody gets IPC's for these areas. The essentially remain Russian as part of the armistice deal. The Russians stay home to distill vodka and the Allies get a 3-day pass to go home before being redeployed to other fronts.

Any non-Russian Allied units in these territories have until the end of their next turn to get out before they are removed.

Walt Mulder wrote:
4. In any dark brown territories (Russia including Serbia and Romania) that were solely occupied by Central Power units, those territories remain claimed by that power and continue to get them IPC's. Those territories may never be attacked again or lost. (Consider that they're out of the war and part of the deal that Russian came to with the CP when the armistice occurs.)

These territories may be attacked and captured by other Allied powers. They are considered to have no original controller.


Raymond, if it helps at all, what's in the FAQ replaces what's in the Rulebook - it doesn't add to it.
 
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Howard Massey
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Zoltanko wrote:
In addition to what is written in the original rule book, plus the new FAQ from Krieghund, I've read at least two or three other user variations or interpretations of what happens following the Russian Revolution. I'm feeling awfully dense because I'm even more confused now that I was before.

My son and I are pretty much just ending Russia's participation in the game and ignoring any effect its territories may have on any other units from either power. It doesn't seem to really make much difference in the overall scheme of things anyway. Hard to really know!

If anybody else out there has come up with a way to explain it in a way that a 10-year-old might understand, please share. Thanks.


I'd ignore the FAQ on that, its still cooking anyway..
Same with other peoples variations.

Walt Mulders explaination is a good listing all the[ if-ands & buts shake ]

On the bright side : If your 10 year old absorbs all that 'entangle'.. maybe he has the makings of a Lawyer surprise

Its a fun game_ forge ahead ....
H
 
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Ubergeek
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So consider my attempt as my interpretation of what the rules say (or don't) without really adding anything. I'll concede that the rules really don't say how to treat Serbia and Romania. I can see considering them as minor neutrals if the revolution happens. IMHO that just raises more questions and creates more situations to deal with. If you go that route then let me try again with changes to Serbia and Romania.

1. Any Russian units in areas outside the dark brown ones (Russia including Serbia and Romania) are removed from the board (including naval assets). Those areas, whether Russian owned or contested at the time, revert back to their original owner or the controlling power at that time. Serbia and Romania revert it minor neutrals if uncontested or to whoever is left after the Russians are removed. The Russians go home to distill vodka.

2. In any dark brown territories (Russia including Serbia and Romania) where there are ONLY Russian and/or Allied units, remove all the units. Nobody gets IPC's for these areas. They essentially remain Russian as part of the armistice deal. Serbia and Romania become minor neutrals and open game for anyone to pluck. The Russians stay home to distill vodka and the Allies get a 3-day pass to go home before being redeployed to other fronts.

3. In any dark brown territories (Russia except for Serbia and Romania) that are contested with Russian (with or without Allied units) and any Central Power units, remove all but one Russian infantry as a reminder to show that area was contested. Any remaining Central Power units may remain and/or leave but must leave at least one infantry unit behind. Nobody will gain IPC's from those contested territories. Serbia and Romania will revert to control of the power that was contesting them.

4. In any dark brown territories (Russia not including Serbia and Romania) that were solely occupied by Central Power units, those territories remain claimed by that power and continue to get them IPC's. Those territories may never be attacked again or lost. (Consider that they're out of the war and part of the deal that Russian came to with the CP when the armistice occurs.)

So from then on, like the rules state Russia is removed from the war and the game. But let's be realistic. Russia will likely stand alone when the revolution occurs and it's very doubtful that British units will be present should they have pushed up from India. It's also unlikely that Russia will be in control of either Serbia or Romania when the revolution occurs unless playing poorly and not pulling back assets to from those area to prevent a revolution. They will likely remain contested if Italy managed to get into them or they'll fall to the CP when Russia leaves. The war in the East is effectively over. From a simplicity standpoint I prefer just dealing with Serbia and Romania as part of Russia.

I don't believe in adding the rule that allows any allies a turn to move out of affected areas. Again, it's needless rules. Just pull them out when Russia pulls out. That's part of the armistice deal. Again, unless the war is dragging out past 1920 and the revolution occurs later than 1918, this shouldn't be an issue anyway as the Brits are probably still dealing with the Turks, and the French are tied up in the West.

Or better yet, just leave out the Russian revolution.
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