Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
29 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: What is it about GO...? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dean Conrad
England
Hessle
East Yorkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
About this GO thing. Now I realise that it is considered by many to be the greatest game ever devised. And a BGG rating of 8.01 is not to be sniffed at - especially for a 4000 year-old game. However, I had to give the game a '4' rating because, well... I just don't get it.

I appreciate the elegant simplicity of the rules, and the aesthetics of the board and stones, and the depth of play, but I have never really been able to see beyond that.

Would someone enlighten me. Could somebody please share their passion and tell me... what is it about GO...?

D.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Cote
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, some people like it and some people don't. But I'm not sure you really appreciate the depth of the game. Did you play a few times and find yourself just closing off long walls? Watch some high-level games online. Try your hand at some online go problems.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
pronoblem baalberith
United States
Pleasantville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Is it just me or do my balls itch?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dean Conrad wrote:
well... I just don't get it.


...and you give Ticket to Ride an 8 and Age of Steam a 2. It seems that you have a taste for the less meatier games.

I've not played a lot of Go, but I know I can use the culture of chess as an analogy. People love it, if you are not in that cult then you tend to not rate it nearly as high.

Play it a few more times, maybe it will reveal itself to you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoffrey Engelstein
United States
Bridgewater
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
Pit Crew avaialble now! The Expanse coming in October!
badge
Ludology Host and Dice Tower Contributor
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What more are you looking for other than elegant simplicity of rules, aesthetics of play, and depth of strategy?

Go is an amazing game, especially since the complexity comes from such simplicity. I wouldn't be surprised if other life forms on other planets are playing Go. Unlike, say, Puerto Rico...

Geoff
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Franklin-Bihary
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1) There is definitely an "I just don't get it" factor for some games. For me, it is with Chess. I know it is one of the most popular games in the west, and a deep strategic luck-free thing, but "I just don't get it" and that means "I just don't like it" very much either. I can understand why you might feel that way about go. I'm the opposite, though. Everything I don't like about chess (linear thinking, static choices, one-move screws you) could be an opposite reason that I DO love go (infinite choices, non-linear thinking, one move COULD screw you, but only if you don't make up for it on the other side of the board).

2) I would also suggest trying a little harder before you give up entirely. Check out a few beginning books on the game to make sure that you are really 'seeing' the game properly. The Janice Kim series are quite good for beginners. Knowing what the 'pros' think about when they play has helped me quite a bit. Also, playing with a variety of opponents will help, too. It's hard to find them, though.

I sincerely hope that the game doesn't turn out to be an "I just don't get it" game for you. It truly is one of the most beautiful, fluid, deep games out there. But if you don't get it, I get you!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Boyes
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I consider Go to be my favorite game, but given your post I am finding it dificult to mount a defense for it.

First I would ask how many times have you played? It takes a while before you can really see a game.

The first few times I played it was two complete neophytes and we filled the board almost completely. I had a feeling that there was something deeper under the game, but I couldn't see it, which is a somewhat frustrating situation but it definately stirred my curiousity more than turned me off the game.

I enjoy it because I continue to learn more and more about it as I play. It continually rewards players with new insights into the game. It has a great handicapping system so I can play literally anyone and have an enjoyable game for both players.

Go isn't for everyone, but I see that you rate E&T highly, which tells me you aren't afraid of abtracts. The fact that you even wrote this post makes me think that you are at least a little bit curious about the game too.

Here is what I would do. Next time you meet someone who plays go, just play 5 or 6 games on a small board, they won't take long. Don't be afraid to take handicap stones, and don't try to understand the whole game in one sitting.

I think that playing the game more would be a bigger convincer than any argument you will find on a forum.

And if the game isn't for you... then it isn't for you, thats good too!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Tannhauser
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
She liked farming...
badge
...he preferred stabbing things in the neck.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I love Go because it tickles a part of my head that would otherwise go unmolested.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"that's a smith and wesson, and you've had your six"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

I hate Go, becuase everyone I know who plays Go is like some 5th Dan ninja grand master, and I tire of losing all the time. My kung fu is weak, i get it already!

ninja

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Cote
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MWChapel wrote:
5th Dan ninja grand master


laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vince Londini
Canada
London
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It takes a few games to start "seeing" ahead and reading the pattern of the board. There are definitely some board situations you have to get up to speed on that help you see "deeper" into the game.

I got into the game by playing quick games on 9x9 boards.

Let me suggest the DragonGoServer (DGS) which is like a play-by-e-mail (play-by-web, but not live) that lets you take games at your own pace in small, quick doses (www.dragongoserver.net).

To give the game a good chance, you need an experienced opponent who is more a coach than competitor, willing to explain things to you and play 10 or 15 games answering your questions and pointing out the ramifications of various plays.

I'd love to help anyone interested! Just PM me here at BGG and I'll set up a 9x9 game for us over at DGS. (I'd volunteer my teacher, but better let him do that himself.) Hope to see you there!

Vince
("Aristarchus" on DGS)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hunga Dunga
Canada
Coquitlam
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that Go is the most beautiful game in the whole world.

Even so, when I first started playing, I only played with one friend, and we were both learning at the same time. (The more experienced players here are saying to themselves "Wall-Go!")

The key is finding a good opponent - someone who understands the game, is willing to be a bit of a mentor, and consequently, willing to be gentle! These people are easier to find than you might think!

My friend and I found a Go nut who also sold Go books. He played each of us and recommended a book to start with. Then, once in a while, we invited a couple of Go experts over for a few games. These were highly ranked players, so we played with 9-stone handicaps. But they were forgiving players, too. In no time we abandoned "wall-go" and started playing with a little more finesse.

Having said all that, you will probably bump into a lot of Go sharks. Good players will point them out to you and warn you not to play with them. What can you learn from someone who just wants to crush beginning players?

Good luck, and I wish you many intriguing Go games!

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
phil v
United States
Richmond (North of Berkeley)
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
engelstein wrote:
What more are you looking for other than elegant simplicity of rules, aesthetics of play, and depth of strategy?

Go is an amazing game, especially since the complexity comes from such simplicity.


Agreed.

I think that you begin to understand it more if you get a good book or two. I recommend the Graded Go Problems series and Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go. It may not be your thing - I suspect it won't be - but you'll understand why we like it.

Ultimately, it's not a game for those who like to conquer things. You have to embrace its process.

Becoming a Go-player is analogous to becoming a gardener:

1] start a garden
2] learn to weed
3] accept that there will always be more weeds
4] learn to enjoy weeding
5] understand why people garden

FWIW, I'm a better gardening than Go-player.

P
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin
United States
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It took me awhile to get it. I still don't think I do yet. Here is my advice, get this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0394733312/sr=1-1/qid=11377...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Boyes
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It also helps if you don't care so much about winning. You have to be able to play your best but accept your losses with grace. I think this is possibly the best thing that Go has taught me as a gamer.

You will be beaten, severly and often.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
phil v
United States
Richmond (North of Berkeley)
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
Helenoftroy wrote:
It took me awhile to get it. I still don't think I do yet. Here is my advice, get this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0394733312/sr=1-1/qid=11377...


I read this book and found it comparable to the online interactive tutorials. It really focusses more on mechanics than strategy, IMO.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Anderson
United States
Tulsa
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
I'll play the Klingons
badge
I'll play the Klingons
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with the others in that it takes a certain amount of knowledge to begin to appreciate it. I played at first without having any sense of strategy or tactics. Watching some games of people that were more advanced and reading the Kim books (easy read and I didn't even work the problems) gave me MUCH more appreciation for the game.

Now that I think about it, its kind of amazing that I gave it that much of a chance since I don't read books on games' strategy (rather play to have fun). However, reading some easy strategy/tactics books gave me a feel for the game so that I appreciated it. I've never taken my study to a higher level, though, sense that would be a bit to much like 'work' for my tastes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Mathews
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What is it about Go?

Wise man once say, "If Chess is the battle, Go is the war." Ponder this, Grasshopper.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Greene
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Exactly.

engelstein wrote:
What more are you looking for other than elegant simplicity of rules, aesthetics of play, and depth of strategy?

Go is an amazing game, especially since the complexity comes from such simplicity. I wouldn't be surprised if other life forms on other planets are playing Go. Unlike, say, Puerto Rico...

Geoff
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hunga Dunga
Canada
Coquitlam
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course, I like to win, but what always sticks out in my mind is "the stone well played", whether it's mine or my opponent's, the stone that has that uncanny balance of attack and defense, the stone that may very well turn the tide, the one you have to sit and admire for a moment...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dean Conrad
England
Hessle
East Yorkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
THANKS!

I knew BGG users wouldn't let me down! I am going to respond to some of these more directly, but I have to teach today, so this morning is a bit of a rush.

I would love to love GO, and you know what? These posts have inspired me to try again. In general, it seems to me, from your advice, that I have been using a teacher who is not quite right for me.

More later.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
(The Artist formerly known as) Arnest R
Germany
Munich
Bavaria
flag msg tools
badge
Keep calm and carry on...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You need someone who is less ignorant than you and willing to teach you how to catch flies with chopsticks without looking and without hurting the flies.

Seriously - it´s a game that wants to be learned, not mastered, you can only find out very little all by yourself in the beginning (come to think of it, do read that book : "In The Beginning") and you need players with more insight than you to show you where to look. This is true independently of your strength. *sigh*

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adrian Casajus
Spain
Barcelona
Catalunya
flag msg tools
All hail the mighty hypnotoad!
badge
What the frack?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just remember my little padawan...

Lose your first hundred go games as fast as possible. ninja
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thegroff wrote:

Lose your first hundred go games as fast as possible. ninja


Far as GO goes, this couldn't be more true. No other game I know of rewards losing with lessons as well as Go does.

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philippe de Monneron
France
VITRE
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
A lot of good things have been said and written. Find someone who already plays go regularly, and he will hopefully explain it better to you. The more you will know about this wonderful game, the more you will like it. In the beginning, you will have to believe what advanced players tell you, and then you will understand why.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
I've got an 808 and a 303 and a record collection like the ABC
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll just chime in and support what others have said: learn on the Dragon Go Server (turn based, not realtime) -- http://www.dragongoserver.net/ and also check out Go For Beginners by Iwamoto (which I'm still getting plenty of mileage out of after 60 games).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.