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Subject: Why Euro Gamers should be excited about Francis Drake rss

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Jon Ben
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Francis Drake is a soon-to-be published game from designer Peter Hawes. Hawes is probably best known for Wars of the Roses and most recently Triassic Terror. Both of these games feature direct player conflict, something that can often rub the Euro crowd (myself included) the wrong way. I am happy to say that although Francis Drake has a fair amount of player interaction it is not direct, your opponents' moves will be highly influential in your decision making but they won't be stealing from you or stabbing you in the back.

The swashbuckling theme and the precedent set by Hawes may mislead some people as to the true nature of this game. My goal with this review is to explain why the Euro Gamer who enjoys medium weight games should be eager to play Francis Drake.



I should warn you that I have not played the game myself. I have read the rules several times and thought about the mechanics a fair bit, but as we all know that can be a far cry from the experience of playing. So this isn't really a typical review, but given that people are interested in hearing about this title I thought a rundown of the rules would be useful. I conclude with my own musings on what the manifestation of these rules might be like.

If the game sounds as good to you as it does to me then consider backing it on Kickstarter. It's going to be a wonderfully produced game with high quality components from the same factory that produced Alien Frontiers, Eclipse, Ground Floor, Merchants & Marauders, Stronghold, and Wars of the Roses to name a few. The box is going to be a deep Power Grid type box. At 9 pounds (4 kg) Francis Drake is going to be crammed to brimming with high quality bits!

Rules Overview
The goal of the game is to amass the most VPs over the course of three voyages to the Spanish Main. Each voyage has two phases the Provisioning Phase and the Sailing Phase. After the 3rd voyage end game points are awarded for Commodities collected throughout the game (these are public and score in sets) and Gold, Silver, and Jewel treasures collected throughout the game (these are secret but trackable).

The graphic design of the game is excellent, here's the beautiful board with Plymouth Street at the top along with Plymouth Harbour and the Spanish Main on the bottom dominating the surface.


Provisioning Phase
Turn order for the Provisioning Phase at the beginning of the game is random, after each voyage it is set in VP order with the losing player going first. Each player has 10 Player Discs used in this phase. On your turn you select one of the available spots on Plymouth Street and in most cases immediately gain the benefits which are typically one of the several types of resources. On subsequent turns you must place your Disc further along Plymouth Street than your previous placement. Plymouth Street is one-way, the direction is shown in this picture:


On your turn instead of placing a Disc you may move your ship to the Outbound Docks occupying the lowest numbered available space. Until this time your ship was at the Homebound Docks showing the turn order for the Provisioning Phase. You no longer participate in the Provisioning Phase once your ship has moved to the Outbound Docks. Play continues in the Provisioning Phase until all players have moved to the Outbound Docks.

The Locations on Plymouth Street
A Location will have one or more spaces for player Discs. The number of spaces can vary depending on the number of players the images I've used are for the 4p game. There are several Locations dedicated to particular resources. At these Locations the player takes the number of resources indicated on the space where her player Disc is placed.


Crew (grey cubes) are used to attack Forts and Towns. Note that a second Crew Location exists with three spaces offering Crew in the amounts 2, 1, and 1.


Guns (black cubes) are used to attack Spanish Galleons and Forts. Note that a second Gun Location exists with three spaces offering Guns in the amounts 2, 2, and 1.


Supplies (brown wooden barrels) determine which regions in the Spanish Main you are allowed to sail to. Note that a second Supplies Location exists with three spaces offering supply barrels in the amounts 3, 2, and 1.


Trade Goods (purple cubes) are used to trade for Commodities at Trade Ports.


The Tavern: The first player to place here rolls the die and adds 1 to the result. The second player to place here rolls the die without modification. In either case your result determines what you will receive on a 1-2 you get to use your Ghost Ship Mission Disc during the Sailing Phase. On a 3-4 you gain 2 Crew and on a 5-6 you gain 3 Crew.


Pinnace: The first player to go here claims a Crew in addition to a Pinnace (cardboard counter). A Pinnace allows you to ignore the Gun cost of attacking Forts during the Sailing Phase.


The Shipyard: When you place here you replace your Frigate with a Galleon, in addition if you are the first to place here you receive a Gun. You must have a Galleon in order to attack Spanish Galleons in the Sailing Phase. Note that you only keep the Galleon for the current voyage.


Francis Drake is an exception to the rules. The turn after placing your Disc on this Location you must place another Disc on Drake. After the second placement you collect the resources 2 Crew, 2 Guns and your choice of either 1 Crew or 1 Gun.


The Queen allows you to upgrade your Frigate to a Galleon for the current voyage. You also take a Gun and a Trade Good.


The Admiral, Governor, and Informer grant special abilities during the Sailing Phase which will explained later. The Informer also awards 1 Trade Good when selected.


The Investor Location can be activated by any number of players (it therefore has no circles to place Discs in). A player placing here chooses one of two options: i) Take either 2 Crew and 1 Gun OR 1 Crew and 2 Guns. ii) Replace your Frigate with a Galleon for this voyage. Each player can activate the Investor once per game, when activated the player discards their Investor Tile and loses 4 VP.


The Golden Hind: The player placing here takes her Golden Hind Mission Disc from the supply. She will use this in the Sailing Phase.


At the end of Plymouth Street are the docks, each player can place a single Disc here and collect their choice of 1 Barrel, 1 Gun, or 1 Crew. This is the end of the road so on your next turn you will have to move your ship to the Outbound Docks.

Sailing Phase
The player who claimed the Admiral now places the Spanish Frigate Tiles face-down next to the three Spanish Galleons. The Spanish Frigates have 0, 1, or 2 guns pictured and add to the strength of the Galleons which are public. Thus the Admiral is privileged in knowing exactly how many guns are needed to defeat each Spanish Galleon. If no one has claimed the Admiral the Spanish Frigates are placed out randomly.

The Player who claimed the Governor does the same thing with the Spanish Troop Tiles placing one face-down next to each Fort. These add 0, 0, 1, or 2 Spanish troops to the Fort, thus this player knows exactly how many Crew are needed to successfully attack each Fort. If no one has claimed the Governor the Spanish Troops are placed randomly. In addition the player who claimed the Governor moves up in the Sailing Order one space.

Placing Mission Discs
In Sailing Order players secretly select one of their Mission Discs to place. Mission Discs have values of 1, 2, 3, and 4. Also one player may have their Golden Hind Mission Disc, and up to two players could have their Ghost Ship Mission Disc.

Players place their Disc face-down at a Destination of their choice. A player can place at most one Disc at each Destination, and a given Destination can contain at most one Disc from each player. The map is divided into 4 zones, in order to place a Disc in zone 1 you must have collected at least 1 Supply during the Provisioning Phase. To place in zone 2 you must have at least 2 Supplies, etc... Note that placing Discs does not cost you Supplies, they are simply a prerequisite for placing in the zone. With 4 Supplies you can place in any zone without restriction. Players place a cube of their colour in the compass rose corresponding to the zone they can reach as a visual reminder of where they are allowed to place.

Players continue in Sailing Order until all Discs have been placed.



The player who claimed the Informer now gets to choose one of two advantages, she can either: i) Look at all players Discs at one Destination where she is present and then optionally switch two of her Discs. The switched Discs can be any two of her Discs! OR ii) Look at a Spanish Troop or Frigate Tile where she has a Disc and then optionally move the Disc she has at that Destination to a different Destination where she does not have a Disc and has enough Supplies to reach.

Resolve Mission Discs
The Mission Discs are turned over. Any Ghost Ships are removed, they are used only to bluff and allow the player to place a Disc last after other players have placed all their Discs (note that the Golden Hind also offers the advantage of playing last).

Mission Discs are now resolved starting with the Golden Hind Disc, then in Sailing Order all players resolve their 1-Disc, then in Sailing Order all players resolve their 2-Disc, etc.... Note the Sailing Order in the below example is Green, Red, Yellow, and Blue, hence the three #1 Discs are resolved in this order.



Destinations typically have 2 circles which denote that only 2 successful activations are allowed. If a player has a successful activation they place their mission Disc face-down on one of the circles to record this. If all circles have been claimed any further Discs at that Destination are returned to their owners. However, Discs beyond the best 2 may yield rewards if the better Discs either fail in their activation due to lack of resources or if they choose not to activate at that Destination in order to save resources for some other purpose.

Spanish Frigate and Spanish Troop Tiles are turned face-up only when a player first resolves a Disc at a Spanish Galleon or Fort. Therefore they are revealed on a need-to-know basis. This can affect a player's ability to manage resources during the Sailing Phase.

After a player has resolved a Disc she may announce that she is returning to Plymouth. She moves her ship into the Homebound Harbour claiming the lowest numbered space. This does not affect turn order in the next Provisioning Phase. However, the first player to do this will score 2 VP if she has at least one successful activation of a Town, Fort or Galleon Destination. The second player will score 1 VP under the same condition.

Attacking Towns
Each Town requires one Crew to successfully activate. The Crew is discarded and if this is the first successful attack the treasure (either Silver or Gold) is taken and placed in the player's treasure chest. A successful activation earns the player the VP reward listed at that Town, 1 or 2 VP.

Attacking Forts
The player must discard 1 or 2 Guns (depending on which Fort she is attacking) and a number of Crew depicted on the Spanish Troop Tile (0, 1, or 2) plus the printed troop strength of the Fort (1 or 2). If the player has a Pinnace she only pays the cost in Crew. If she is the first to successfully activate the Fort she receive the treasure (either Silver or Gold). A successful activation earns the player the VP reward listed at that Fort, 3, 4, 5, or 6 VP.

Attacking Galleons
The player must discard the number of Guns depicted on the Spanish Galleon and the Spanish Frigate. The Galleons have 1, 2, or 3 Guns the Frigates have 0, 1, or 2 Guns yielding combined totals of anywhere from 1 to 5 Guns. The first player to successfully activate receives the Jewel treasure. A successful activation earns the player the VP reward listed on the Galleon either 4, 6, or 8 VP.



Trading
To successfully activate at a Trade Port a player must discard one Trade Good and claim one of the Commodities present. These score at the end of the game. One of the Trade Ports allows 3 successful activations, all other Destinations allow only 2.

Scoring the Voyage
The Admiral scores 1 VP for each unclaimed Gold on the board. The Governor scores 1 VP for each unclaimed Silver on the board. Each player scores points for the diversity of their attacking. During the Sailing Phase when a player first attacks a Town, Fort or Galleon she places a cube on the corresponding icon on the Types of Conquest Chart in the bottom left corner of the board. If a player has attacked 3 different types of destinations she scores 10 VP, she scores 4 VP for 2 different types, and 1 VP for one type. Note that Trade Ports are not attacked and do not count here.

Bookkeeping Phase
Between voyages players loose all resources except for Commodities and the treasures they've placed in their treasure chests. The turn order for the next voyage is set by the current scores with the loosing player going first in the next Provisioning Phase (ties are broken by Sailing Order).
The board is reset:
-Players take all their Discs back
-Player cubes are removed from the compass roses and Types of Conquest Chart
-Players who had a Galleon replace it with their Frigate
-Frigate and Troop counters are removed
-Treasures and Commodities are re-seeded
-Spanish Galleons are shuffled and placed face-up randomly
-The Locations on Plymouth street are shuffled and placed out randomly

End of Game
The game ends after 3 voyages. Players score points for collected Commodities:
4 different Commodities score 26 VP
3 different Commodities score 16 VP
2 different Commodities score 8 VP
1 Commodity scores 2 VP

Players empty their treasure chests and score points for collected treasures:
Each Silver earns 3 VP
Each Gold earns 4 VP
Each Jewel earns 5 VP

The player with the most VPs wins. Ties are broken by the order of the ships in the Homebound Docks, i.e. the order players returned to Plymouth Street during the 3rd voyage.

My Thoughts
There are several reasons why this game stands out to me. There is an abundance of difficult and tense decisions and you're constantly trying to anticipate your opponent's moves.

The Provisioning Phase is perhaps the easiest to understand due to its similarity with the game Egizia. Going slow and picking up lots of resources versus skipping ahead to choice Locations. With 4 different resources to collect (Crew, Guns, Supplies, and Trade Goods) along with the advantages offered by the Queen/Shipyard, Governor, Admiral, Informant, Pinnace and Golden Hind there are lots of things to consider and weigh carefully while planning your trip to the Spanish Main. There is also the tension of getting to the Outbound Harbour early, this gives you a better tie break during the Sailing Phase which is a substantial advantage given the discrete nature of the Mission Discs.

While you can be deprived of resources by other players this will necessarily mean that other valuable Locations are left for you. If you can remain flexible you should be able to eek out a niche for yourself. Risky playing in this Phase can lead to disaster, however this is a calculated risk that can be mitigated by your once per game use of the Investor Location and the small, but significant, benefit of the Dockside which ensures that you can get at least one Gun/Crew/Supply.

The coupling of the various resources is interesting and gives you information about what your opponents are able to attack. One of the most blatant coups is a surplus of Supplies. If only two people collect 4 Supplies then they alone can sail to the 4th zone and have little competition for the Destinations there. This also reduces competition in the lower zones helping your opponents.

Another very important action is upgrading to a Galleon which allows you to attack the Spanish fleet. This is a significant statement of intent, however, without the Admiral it is also fairly risky. The difference of needing 0 or 2 extra Guns to defeat a Spanish Frigate is huge. A similar relationship exists with the Pinnace and Governor.

There are two sources of bonus points that must be considered. The first to attack will get a treasure scoring an extra 3-5 VP. Attacking a diversity of Locations scores 1, 4 or 10 VP. The plum of attacking a Fort, Town and Galleon is a whopping 10 VP! This also helps counter-balance the desire to attack the high-VP Destinations, if you take on the easier Destinations and score less VP it may pay-off in the end.

The Sailing Phase features one of my favourite game mechanics, a combination of blind bidding, bluffing, and action programming. Players place Mission Discs out face-down you must read your opponent's intentions to deduce where you can get the biggest advantage. This has elements of the bidding in Ys and the allocation of actions in StarCraft. The best comparison I can think of is the game Doge which is an excellent game where players secretly place out influence chips into regions in an attempt to win majorities. The psychological warfare and bluffing in this phase is something you don't see very often in serious medium weight Euros today, and it seems to be particularly well executed in Francis Drake.

Things can go horribly wrong in this Phase but this should be the result of a calculated risk. You have a lot of information based on what zones your opponents can sail to and what resources they have collected during the Provisioning Phase, not to mention where they have already placed Discs as the round continues. There is also a subtle balancing here between those who go first and break ties and those who go last but get to see what their opponents have done.

All of this leads me to believe that the mechanics in this game are very well implemented and thoroughly thought out. It seems a lot of play testing and effort has created a game where there is no 'right' decision. There are benefits and drawbacks to everything leading to tough decisions. This is a hallmark of excellent game design.

Reservations
The above is a glowing review since I have a strong sense that this game is right for me. I hope that I've explained things well enough that you can tell if the game is also right for you. I would also like to outline some of my reservations.

I am hoping that the Sailing Phase does not feel like player chaos. It seems like there ought to be enough information to avoid this, but it can be a fine line. It does not feel good to plan carefully just to have your dreams fall apart due to the actions of others, perhaps even people playing sub-optimally to screw-you.

The playtime is listed at 90-120 minutes. There are three voyages with two Phases per voyage. In the first Phase you have 10 Discs and the second you have at least 4 Discs. You are unlikely to play all 10 Discs in the first Phase so let's say each player plays 12 Discs per voyage. In a 5 player game this is a total of 12*5*3=180 Discs played. We have to assume that the stated 120 minutes is for the 5 player game. This leaves us with an avg time per Disc of 40 seconds. Minus the time to do bookkeeping, score, etc.... I'm hoping that this is realistic but given the amount of decision space and analysis that can be done, especially in the Sailing Phase when you can evaluate each player's collected resources, less than 40 seconds might be optimistic. I certainly see enough here to warrant 90 minutes at 4p, and the turn structure is such that with snappy play people will be constantly engaged so hopefully the listed playtime is accurate.

Finally I hope that there is tension in both phases of the game. I am envisioning a tight optimization/efficiency play style which needs to be padded with some flexibility to account for unforeseen actions by your opponents. Hard decisions which can be reasoned to a point with the possibility of risky moves that might yield large rewards. If that is the core of the game then I think I will very much enjoy Francis Drake.
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Marc Puig
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$45 post the game to Europe . gulp
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Jon Ben
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mapiu2001 wrote:
$45 post the game to Europe . gulp

While I appreciate your vomit-icon on this topic I don't think this review is the proper place to voice these concerns. There are currently two threads where this is being discussed:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/959135/kickstarter
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11940000#11940000

thanks
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Mathue Faulkner
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This game looks very cool....but so much of my gaming is 2p that it's an absolute requirement that new purchases have at least a reasonable 2p variant.

Great review of a great looking game though...
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Jon Ben
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mfaulk80 wrote:
This game looks very cool....but so much of my gaming is 2p that it's an absolute requirement that new purchases have at least a reasonable 2p variant.

Great review of a great looking game though...

Yes that is a real concern. Peter addressed this issue in another thread. He said that they have played many 2p games with each player controlling 2 players and that this was very enjoyable for them and difficult due to managing two board positions.

I wouldn't call this an ideal solution but it is nice to know that it has been played this way and that it works well.
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Peter Marchlewitz
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I am glad you made a comparison to Egizia as I really like this game. I was quite interested in FD and even more so now. Nice review and thoughts!
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I played a prototype version of this last April and thought it was a fine middleweight game. I'm happy to see that Peter got this placed with Eagle games and feel this title should do well.
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JonBen wrote:
mapiu2001 wrote:
$45 post the game to Europe . gulp

While I appreciate your vomit-icon on this topic I don't think this review is the proper place to voice these concerns. There are currently two threads where this is being discussed:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/959135/kickstarter
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11940000#11940000

thanks

I disagree. Your thread is titled "Why Euro Gamers should be excited about Francis Drake". I imagine many if not most Euro Gamers are outside the US, in which case shipping is going to be a major issue for them.

The only way for this problem (including Europe to US shipping issues for games from European publishers) to get resolved is for gamers to keep banging on about it on the forums until some enterprising soul comes up with a workable solution, so telling mapiu2001 to take his comments off to the grumble threads isn't helpful in my opinion.

From your review there seems to be a lot to like about this game, but as I'm not in the US it just gets moved to my "maybe someday" list, unfortunately.
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Matthew Mayes
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You sold me. I just backed it. I literally just stumbled upon it 10 minutes ago but with what you've said and gosh, it seems like a real value, I couldn't resist.
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Jon Ben
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Chrysm wrote:
JonBen wrote:
mapiu2001 wrote:
$45 post the game to Europe . gulp

While I appreciate your vomit-icon on this topic I don't think this review is the proper place to voice these concerns. There are currently two threads where this is being discussed:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/959135/kickstarter
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11940000#11940000

thanks

I disagree. Your thread is titled "Why Euro Gamers should be excited about Francis Drake". I imagine many if not most Euro Gamers are outside the US, in which case shipping is going to be a major issue for them.

The only way for this problem (including Europe to US shipping issues for games from European publishers) to get resolved is for gamers to keep banging on about it on the forums until some enterprising soul comes up with a workable solution, so telling mapiu2001 to take his comments off to the grumble threads isn't helpful in my opinion.

From your review there seems to be a lot to like about this game, but as I'm not in the US it just gets moved to my "maybe someday" list, unfortunately.

My review is aimed at drawing attention to the game and helping the fans of medium weight Euros find this game. Whether those people back on kickstarter or buy it in retail later is not that important, either way this review may help them notice the game. Of course there is a kickstarter campaign going on and I would be remiss if I did not mention it for those who may be interested in backing.

I realize the international shipping costs for kisckstarter games are frustrating. The fact is it costs a lot of money to ship individual boxes that weigh 4 kg internationally. If people find the cost to back a project too high they should wait for it to arrive via the normal retail channels and save money.

I don't think it's reasonable to turn every thread in the FD forums into a campaign against the cost of shipping heavy boxes from the US to international destinations. Eagle games is subsidizing the actual cost by $15 so it would have been $60 shipping if not for their friendly gesture. Killing the messenger doesn't seem appropriate to me.
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Chris in Kansai
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JonBen wrote:

My review is aimed at drawing attention to the game and helping the fans of medium weight Euros find this game.

Which it does admirably and in great detail, but mapiu2001's post is highly relevant for any non-US potential purchaser.

JonBen wrote:
I don't think it's reasonable to turn every thread in the FD forums into a campaign against the cost of shipping heavy boxes from the US to international destinations.


One post does not a campaign make!

I sympathise that after the effort you put into your review, you probably didn't want a vom smiley as your first response - I guess my point was also that if you plan on telling people what they can and can't post on your threads then your keyboard's going to get rather warm, shall we say?

Anyway, my apologies - it's not my intention to derail your thread.

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Jon Ben
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Chrysm wrote:
I sympathise that after the effort you put into your review, you probably didn't want a vom smiley as your first response - I guess my point was also that if you plan on telling people what they can and can't post on your threads then your keyboard's going to get rather warm, shall we say?

Anyway, my apologies - it's not my intention to derail your thread.

I certainly have no illusions about my power to control other's behavior. My many experiments on this subject have failed miserably whistle It wasn't an attempt at censorship merely my opinion that such discussions have more appropriate venues.

In the spirit of getting things more on track here's a general question I was curious about while writing my review. What other games feature the kind of blind action selection thing going on in the Shipping Phase? I mentioned Ys, Doge, and StarCraft in the review. I think the StarCraft connection is a bit on the flimsy side but kind of related. I'm sure I'm forgetting a really obvious one but I've racked my brain and can't conjure it up.
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John Bradshaw
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mapiu2001 wrote:
$45 post the game to Europe .
Drake's ship was probably built for less than that!

International shipping charges are very tedious - and obviously not the fault of the games companies.

Never mind - this game looks awesome and is worthy of further investigation!
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Clinton Coddington
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I'm getting quite excited about this game. Eagle/Gryphon games typically have fantastic production. Super high quality and this looks to be no exception.
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Many mechanics and components remind me a favorite of mine Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery, particularly the set collection for commodities to get VPs and the Galleon ship models. Obviously there seems to be the worker placement mechanic all over here.

I may keep an eye on this one.
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JonBen wrote:
mapiu2001 wrote:
$45 post the game to Europe . gulp

While I appreciate your vomit-icon on this topic I don't think this review is the proper place to voice these concerns. There are currently two threads where this is being discussed:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/959135/kickstarter
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11940000#11940000

thanks

Sincerely, I didn´t know it is a vomit-icon.

I just wanted to show sadness because of the post price and it looked to me as an icon of someone who is, at the same time, sad and desperate.

Maybe someone could study how different countries and cultures interpret BGG emoticons. I didn´t relate it to vomits.

By the way, the game looks fantistic and it is for euro-gamers.

I wish the best for the KcK project.
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This game feels a LOT like Carson City to me.

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JonBen wrote:
If people find the cost to back a project too high they should wait for it to arrive via the normal retail channels and save money.

A successfully funded game with some/many stretchgoal bonuses will never be as cheap as when you were a backer.

Furthermore Eagle/Gryphon games are not (or only rarely) available in "normal retail channels" over here in the old world. Yes you can order them via internet and will be charged again with shipping costs... so really there is no advantage in waiting other than there are reviews and opinions about the game when published.
Just my 2 cents and thanks for the overview.
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Goodsound wrote:
JonBen wrote:
If people find the cost to back a project too high they should wait for it to arrive via the normal retail channels and save money.

A successfully funded game with some/many stretchgoal bonuses will never be as cheap as when you were a backer.

Furthermore Eagle/Gryphon games are not (or only rarely) available in "normal retail channels" over here in the old world. Yes you can order them via internet and will be charged again with shipping costs... so really there is no advantage in waiting other than there are reviews and opinions about the game when published.
Just my 2 cents and thanks for the overview.

I'm guessing this game will be one of the "only rarely" available Eagle games in the old world based on an earlier post by the designer:

"...we will be making the game available in Germany soon after its release date so you need not worry about shipping rates...but the normal distribution channel through Germany won't be operational until after the game is manufactured."

Not sure 'bout other regions, but looks like it'll be available in Europe at some point...
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David Siskin
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stevelabny wrote:
This game feels a LOT like Carson City to me.


Well, Plymouth Street does, but the rest of it seems far more developed.
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David Siskin
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I would like to know if there will be any kickstarter exclusives included in this. That seems to really bring up pledges.
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Mathue Faulkner
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dumpty wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
This game feels a LOT like Carson City to me.


Well, Plymouth Street does, but the rest of it seems far more developed.
And Plymouth Street plays much more like Egizia. It just looks like Carson City....
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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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Dune Kitty really does love you, despite any asshattery.
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Useless rollover, booya! Dune Kitty says, "deal with it."
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Chrysm wrote:

The only way for this problem (including Europe to US shipping issues for games from European publishers) to get resolved is for gamers to keep banging on about it on the forums until some enterprising soul comes up with a workable solution, so telling mapiu2001 to take his comments off to the grumble threads isn't helpful in my opinion.

Neither is yours. In fact, yours is even less than useless.

Yeah, because the way to affect serious change in the shipping and fright companies of the world and get them reduce post costs is to bitch incessantly about it in boardgame forums! shake

FFS already, this is a broken effin record and it's almost a Godwin equivalent at this point. It's not a matter of if some idiot will bitch about international shipping costs on KS projects anymore, just when/how soon the inevitable will happen.

Christ people, use your head already. Like VAT and import duties, the shipping costs are what they are. There is NOTHING at all game designers and producers and publishers can do about them. You only look like a total jackwagon when you whine yet again about something they literally and figuratively can not do a single thing about. Complain to your country's government and postal system, UPS, FedEx, DHL, and all of the rest of the shipping companies if you REALLY want to do something about it, if not stop operating under the asinine delusion that complaining on an internet forum is going to help with jack shit about freight / shipping.
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Clinton Coddington
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Actually, it's the oil companies that need to be spanked. Gas is the reason shipping costs are getting absolutely out of control.
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Chris in Kansai
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midnightmadness wrote:
Chrysm wrote:

The only way for this problem (including Europe to US shipping issues for games from European publishers) to get resolved is for gamers to keep banging on about it on the forums until some enterprising soul comes up with a workable solution, so telling mapiu2001 to take his comments off to the grumble threads isn't helpful in my opinion.

Neither is yours. In fact, yours is even less than useless.

Yeah, because the way to affect serious change in the shipping and fright companies of the world and get them reduce post costs is to bitch incessantly about it in boardgame forums! shake

Hey, this is capitalism, baby - consumers voice a need, need gets filled. Yeah, I doubt the big companies are going to shift themselves to accommodate us but some of the OLGS are already seeing how they can work around this and GMT have an informal distribution system in place in Japan to keep their costs down, so solutions are starting to appear from within the community. Add in some enterprising freight forwarders and there's a reasonable solution in the making which could be applied to Kickstarter projects.


midnightmadness wrote:
Complain to your country's government and postal system, UPS, FedEx, DHL, and all of the rest of the shipping companies if you REALLY want to do something about it

Ha ha, that's hysterical - I think you may overestimate the political muscle of the board game community.

I'm not on the Kickstarter forums and I have no idea what's been discussed there, so I'm surprised you're so wound up about it.
Better out than in though - hope you feel better for the rant.
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