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Subject: Echo Faction rss

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David Thompson
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Echo Faction, Alpha Playtest Version 2.1 (updated 27 April 2013)

http://www.skirmishtactics.com/Echo.pdf

Ok, I'm going to try something different for the initial release of the Alpha version of Echo.

For SoL, I released the document on a few different locations on BGG and uploaded the low res version to the Files section on the STA BGG entry. Ideas and revisions came fast and furious, and I was constantly having to upload new versions of the file to BGG, which then had to sit in the queue. This time, I'm only going to post the Alpha version here. I'm going to give us some time to analyze it. I'll make constant revisions to the document, and update this post accordingly (listing the current version and upload date).

Once we've worked out the major issues, I'll make it available to the larger BGG/playtest community.

Thanks!



 
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SnipedintheHead
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I went to BGG and I all got was this Overtext
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Sounds like a good plan.
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Quote:
Ideas and revisions came fast and furious, and I was constantly having to upload new versions of the file to BGG, which then had to sit in the queue. This time, I'm only going to post the Alpha version here. I'm going to give us some time to analyze it. I'll make constant revisions to the document, and update this post accordingly (listing the current version and upload date).


I think you undestood now why I said to left the SoL for a bit...

Going to try read Echo tonight.
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David Thompson
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Quote:
I think you undestood now why I said to left the SoL for a bit...

Going to try read Echo tonight.


Yep. I definitely should have let us debate for a while, discuss the various issues in the forums, and then uploaded a version of SoL that consolidated all of our thoughts rather than constantly uploading new versions and making people re-download the file over and over.

I'm still new to all this!
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I'm not able to check your site.
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David Thompson
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Try it now. I think it was down for a few minutes. If you can't access the site, you should still be able to save directly from the link.
 
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Like pyro… like pyro a lot…
Just browsed and put my eyes on pyro.
I’ve been working in my objects faction, hope soon I can post it, and some objects are burnable… and explosive, and I like pyro…
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David Thompson
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Quote:
Like pyro… like pyro a lot…
Just browsed and put my eyes on pyro.
I’ve been working in my objects faction, hope soon I can post it, and some objects are burnable… and explosive, and I like pyro…


You literally have me laughing out loud. Glad you like her!
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David Thompson
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Ok, just updated the Echo faction to 1.1. I've been getting fantastic feedback from a group of three playtesters in Singapore (Zhi Yi, Paul, and Clarence). They pointed out a mistake with the Psi-Blade's character cards, so I fixed that.

Also, they voiced concerns that the Psion might be a bit expensive and the Pyro too cheap. I think the Psion is about right due to the amazing ability to heal at a distance without line-of-sight. That's huge. The Pyro may be a different story. I look forward to everyone's thoughts on STA's newest faction.
 
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Order of the Echolight
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Hi, I just have one question. Is Psi-blade, Psychic blast, Psychic invisibility and Domination really meant to be useless against erthen? Because that will mean that the guy Psi-blade can't be used against Erthen and Mindbender's abilities will be useless.
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David Thompson
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No, that was an oversight on my part. They should work against all character types except Autonoma (which only includes the HARPI). I've considered not letting them work against Animals too (which would just be the Waste Dragon for now).

Thanks for catching that. Astute as always, guys. I appreciate it.

Thoughts? On the powers not affecting Animals and Autonoma?
 
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David Thompson
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Echo has been updated to version 2.0. This includes some tweaks to the ability descriptions and a couple changes to when characters receive abilities. The biggest change, however, is this is the first update of a faction with the completely revamped, significantly modified character cost formula. In other words, until I get the other factions updated to the 2.0 versions (which will happen within the next day), this version of Echo is not compatible with the other factions.
 
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Your timing is perfect.
Just spend half a night cutting, gluing and mounting the Echo and the Order for a game today… Even start playing, but start sleep-walking after deploying the units.
On other side, I’ve colour boards now. A game ready to go, if the changes aren’t too many, I may be able to use them.
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Order of the Echolight
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Wait, the Order of the New Dawn is out?
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Awkward moment that I think:
Where the hell did I get the order?
Did I speak to much?

But yes, I have a running pre release copy… David should be refining the pdf to publish.
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David Thompson
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Paul and Clarence, I'll get the Order to you later today!
 
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Order of the Echolight
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Thanks , look forward to it
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David Thompson
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By the way, I added one small change to Echo after I updated them to 2.0. The Mindbender must either use Psychic Blast or Domination for his Ranged Combat attacks. He can't make a normal Ranged Combat attack.

I'll upload that change later today too, but I thought if someone already printed out 2.0, it was easy enough just to pencil the change in.

I'm really curious what you guys think about the Mindbender and Nether-Tech now...
 
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David Thompson
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Two more changes to Echo. For now I'm keeping them at the 2.0 version because I want to sync up the version numbers for all the files to the 2.0 level for the end of the 2-layer design contest that is going on in the design forums. So just be aware, if you downloaded the Echo faction before 25 April, you need to get the newest version. Don't worry, I know this is confusing - I won't do it in the future, I promise!

The changes:

- The Psion now has to make an RC attack against allies when he's trying to heal them if he doesn't have line of sight.

- The PSi-Blade can now make a regular CC attack.
 
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Order of the Echolight
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What is the RC for psion when he wants to heal without line of sight?
 
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When I suggest this I proposed 50/50 chance. But I don't know what David chosed.

And now I think, a RC would be much better, since you could make it change by Psion level...

And now that I think even more, it can't be RC, because that would make Psion able to make RC that aren't heals (or have strange non KISS rules)

Well, I gona play with 50/50 chance and think about it. Then propose some type of solution to David.
 
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Order of the Echolight
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Maybe psychic healing could be like this. The character must use this ability when making a range combat against a human/chimera not in LOS. If at least one dice roll is successful, the target does not lose any health, but gains one healtn instead. A range combat roll is not needed when target is in Line Of Sight and the human/chimera can immediately gain a health
 
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David Thompson
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Haha. Well, that was embarrassing. I forgot that the Psion didn't have an RC when I updated the power.

There are two solutions. You guys tell me what you prefer:

1. The Psion does not have an RC.

The ability would read:

This character can heal a Chimera or Human character within Weapon Range (to include itself) for one point of damage. This character does not have to have line of sight to the target; however, if this character does not have line of sight to the target, this character must roll one ten-sided dice. If the result is 1-5, the target is not healed; if the result is 6-10, the target is healed for one point of damage.

Pro: Simplicity.
Con: Psychic Healing without LoS always has a 50/50 chance.


2. Give the Psion an RC that scales with level (probably 2,3,4), but the Psion would not be able to use the RC in an offensive capacity.

The ability would read:

This character must use the Psychic Healing ability when making a Ranged Combat attack. This character cannot make a normal Ranged Combat attack. This character can heal a Chimera or Human character within Weapon Range (to include itself) for one point of damage without making an attack roll if this character has line of sight to the target. However, if this character does not have line of sight to the target, this character must make a Ranged Combat attack to heal the target. If the attack results in at least one success, the target is healed for one point of damage. The target of this Ranged Combat attack does not receive character or terrain Defense bonuses. This ability overrules abilities that allow characters to gain Defense bonuses when in specific terrain types, such as Shadowmeld.

Pros: Scaling chance to heal (definitely improves the Psion with level)
Con: A little more clunky of a rule, but consistent with a couple other restrictive powers in the game.


By the way, I can calculate the likelihood that a Psion would be able to heal an Echo character at a given level using option #2 as follows:

Psion level is Recruit and target is:
Recruit: 84%
Veteran: 75%
Elite: 64%

Psion level is Veteran and target is:
Recruit: 93.5%
Veteran: 87.5%
Elite: 78.5%

Psion level is Elite and target is:
Recruit: 97%
Veteran: 94%
Elite: 87%

So you can see that with option #2 there's a much higher probability the Psion will successfully heal his target than with option #1. Something to keep in mind.

Thoughts? I personally prefer the second, but let me know what you guys think.

By the way, I went ahead and updated the .pdf with option #2 (just as a placeholder - I can always change it to option #1 if that's what the playtests suggest is a better option).

I also tweaked a few things:

- Mindbender was a re-priced a little and dropped RC at Vet and Elite levels (his Domination was too powerful - it almost always hit average level Defenses for characters equal level to the Mindbender).

- Psion had RC added to support option #2.

I also tweaked WR just a bit.
 
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Order of the Echolight
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I prefer option 2 as the first option is too luck based. Secondly, the psion is supposed to become more skilled as it goes from Recruit to Elite, thus, as the second option further emphasizes this, I prefer option 2
 
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David Thompson
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Sounds good. Option 2 is what is in the new download, so make sure to re-download the latest version of the file. Glad you like the revision.
 
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