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Fallen City of Karez» Forums » Sessions

Subject: My first play (2 players) rss

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Mark Stocks
New Zealand
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I've seen that a lot of people are after reviews of this game, but after only one play I think just a session report is best at the moment. Before we got going I had to do a lot of research into the rules, I usually pick rules up fairly fast but I felt that there were a LOT of gaps in the rules, one of many examples being what all the visitor cards do and how you can use them.

We played a 2 player game, me being the Arcane Guild and my partner being the Hero's Guild. At the start I was concerned that I shouldn't try to put too many red threat cubes on the board as I needed to upgrade the village to a city to win, so I held off with a private dungeon for a few turns building up my hand of minions. In hindsight this was disaster, the Hero's guild built up a mass of blue valor cubes which produced two massive disadvantages, first it meant that there were no black hero tokens in the city, meaning that I found it much harder to add valor cubes to my private dungeon and second that we got to a city so early on that my partner didn't need to do anything to keep it that way. I tried to kill off as many of the townsfolk as possible, but there only a limited number of ways to do this, many of which need valor cubes which I didn't have many of. The Hero's guild had no need at all to go into my private dungeon, especially as there was little threat on them and the adventures were much more appealing, in the end I sent a couple of my own hero's in and purposely made them flee to add an extra threat and get some treasure and valor. I'm still not sure why anyone would go into a personal dungeon when the owner has a mass of cards in his hand?

I have a feeling that the other pairing for a two player game may be a little more balanced, although I still think that we would get to a city way too fast.

I know this isn't exactly a review but a little note of the components. The artwork is great, most of the pieces were nice although the cardboard punch outs seem to me as though they will delaminate fairly quickly. The board is nice to look at but a pain to play with, its too busy and I ended up looking at the guide of the back of my player card more than the board.

My conclusions form the first game are that the rules are terrible, they need to be twice as long to properly describe everything in the game. From from watching the communications come out of the kickstarter campaign I think this stems from Elad assuming that we know what he is on about, but really he needs to explain every little detail to make things clear. In Elad's defense though he is very quick at getting back to people about rule issues. With regards to the game, its hard to tell how well it plays as I stuffed up on my initial strategy, my girlfriend seemed to like it which I was surprised by, but this may be just because she destroyed me.

Mark
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A. B. West
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Beech Grove
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Thanks for the session report. There's a somewhat clear signal coming through on this game, but it's also kinda early yet. I'm still excited to give it a go myself.
 
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Kris Ardianto
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Stocksy250884 wrote:

My conclusions form the first game are that the rules are terrible, they need to be twice as long to properly describe everything in the game.


You got it, friend... same issues in here! robot
 
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Christian
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vardamir wrote:
Stocksy250884 wrote:

My conclusions form the first game are that the rules are terrible, they need to be twice as long to properly describe everything in the game.


You got it, friend... same issues in here! :robot:


Elad got told from the very beginning that the rulebook is absolutely terrible (just look at the rules-section here for god's sake) but for some reason he was adamant that it is sufficient and is unwilling to provide an updated edition. The problem is that a lot of people will play with the rulebook as is, make a heap of mistakes, consequently brake the game and dismiss it as crap. CO2 had a similar problem and many I know will now refuse to play it because they had a very bad initial experience. Rule of thumb: A game is only as good as your rulebook.
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Elad Goldsteen
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We will publish a "the first few turns" extended example along with a video tutorials of the rules in general and also a 3 turns run through of a 3 player game (turn by turn play) just to give you a clearer view of the game mechanics.

The game flows much smoother and simpler than you might think and it will be easy to pick up with these tools.

We just need to finish the distribution of all KS copies (and pre-orders) first as many copies are still in transit.

Hopefully you will see these posted within a week.

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A. B. West
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Nice!
 
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Robert Kuster
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I just picked up a copy at the local store but from this post and reviews and remarks so far I am afraid to open the box in case I want to return it. I will check the examples and video first and are there plans to re-write the rule book?

Thanks
 
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Mark Stocks
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I wouldn't worry about it too much, it seems like a good game. I think the video explanation that should be coming next week should answer all the questions.
 
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Stocksy250884 wrote:
We played a 2 player game, me being the Arcane Guild and my partner being the Hero's Guild. At the start I was concerned that I shouldn't try to put too many red threat cubes on the board as I needed to upgrade the village to a city to win, so I held off with a private dungeon for a few turns building up my hand of minions. In hindsight this was disaster, the Hero's guild built up a mass of blue valor cubes which produced two massive disadvantages, first it meant that there were no black hero tokens in the city, meaning that I found it much harder to add valor cubes to my private dungeon and second that we got to a city so early on that my partner didn't need to do anything to keep it that way. I tried to kill off as many of the townsfolk as possible, but there only a limited number of ways to do this, many of which need valor cubes which I didn't have many of. The Hero's guild had no need at all to go into my private dungeon, especially as there was little threat on them and the adventures were much more appealing, in the end I sent a couple of my own hero's in and purposely made them flee to add an extra threat and get some treasure and valor. I'm still not sure why anyone would go into a personal dungeon when the owner has a mass of cards in his hand?
On my 2nd session on this game, I played the Arcane guild also and I had similar disadvantages, even harder since we played 4 players game (Heroic, Trader, and Public Guild). Kinda feel like 3 players against 1, where 2 players could entered the blue and green adventures each round and wipe bunch of threat token every round, causing the rapid progress of the gauge of threat-valor toward the right where black hero token are no longer added in each round. And also along as the game progress, 3 other players share the same opinion as I do that it's more appealing to enter the adventures than private dungeons. So visitor on private dungeon are scarce and black hero token left are even less left when my turn comes. While if I want to push my turn order to best others (so I can use black hero token before it was run out by other players), I had to own valor token more than others, in which by long run also hurts the Arcane chance since owning more valor token will push the gauge of threat-valor even faster toward "zero black hero token and all white citizens".... makes it a contradiction, unlike other Guild's where their agenda flows with same direction.

Although in the end of the game I can't said that I was destroyed. As the dead last, the difference of my VP with the 3rd and 2nd last are only by 1 and 2 VP. But still it was quite difficult to farm the threat token on private dungeon for bonus VP, certainly far more difficult than the Heroic farming the valor, the Trader farming the gold, or from my 1st play where I got the Engineer, I won with plenty of bonus VP by constructing lots of buildings (also farming the chain effect that yield in producing crystal / valor token).

Plenty of dilemma playing the Arcane Guild giving it probably a higher difficulty to use than other Guild.. cool

I do wonder though.. whether or not it'd got more dynamic if :

a. Unlike other Guild that turn order and end game VP of 3 valor token equal into 1 VP are based all on valor token, the Arcane Guild are counted for both based on threat token it got (1:1 comparison with valor token of other players).

b. And also if the Arcane's heroes win an adventure, instead of getting valor token and discard all threat token, he didn't get any valor token and can decide:
b.1) either simply moved all threat token from that adventure to it's private dungeon, causing the poll of threat token on it's private dungeon larger incentive for other players to enter it if they wanna push the gauge of threat-valor to the right ;
b.2) or keep them in personal pool for turn order calculation as stated in (a) like other players keep valor token. End game 3 token into 1 VP are accounted both poll, private dungeons and personal pool, additional to the Guild's bonus VP that are only counted from private dungeon.

This way it will create another alternative for getting threat token in the private dungeon, growing incentive for other players to get in, and alignment between turn order and bonus agenda. But dunno, that just a thought, could be too powerful or probably no significant effect in the end of the game.
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