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Subject: Lion and Wise Man rss

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Steve Ames
United States
Boulder Creek
California
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1) When I read the Lion card it states "You and your opponent place all your face-up utility cards face-up in the middle...". When you use a utility card the rules say you "turn it upside-down" which I interpret to mean face down, is this wrong?

This is very important, because if my interpretation is correct, you can use your 3 utilities, turning them "face-down", play the lion, steal 2 of your opponents utilities that are face up and discard 2 of your own that are face down.

2) Can you use 2 Wise men during the same turn? If so, you could theoretically play the 2 wise men, purchase 3 wares for 0 (actually -1), and play the Dancer to sell the same wares for 16! I did this, but my wife complained that this could not be done. She wants an answer from the game designer .... she didn't like the answers from others. Thank you.
 
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Maja Dorn
Germany
Pfofeld
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hello steve!

yes you can use all utilities again, which were "stolen" by the lion!

two wise men duplicate the effect, max 0 gold (no negative costs!)! you´re really a lucky man (two wise men....)

best regards
(and cross the thumbs because of the expansion!!)

rüdiger dorn
 
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Kai Peters
Germany
Boeblingen
Baden-Wuerttemberg
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Ad 1) Used utilities are not turned face-down but upside-dow, so that the card is face-up but the text is pointing towards your opponent. So the lion affects all utilities in play.
Besides, the german wording is not 'face-up' but '[...]ausliegend[...]' which means 'cards in play'.

@M.Dorn: The question was not if the previously used cards stolen by the lion are ready after the lion action but if used cards are affected by the lion at all.

Ad 2) I'm not the game designer, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to play two Wise Men in one turn.
BUT: As I see it, playing the Dancer ist not a sales action, thus should not be affected by the Wise Man. At least the german version of the Dancer says ( translated by myself): 'play a wares card with three wares and place any 3 wares back to the supply. Take the gold as listed on the wares card [...]'. It is not played together with a wares card, changing the sell wares action, but it's actually an action by itself. At least that's my interpretation.
 
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Penny
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Connecticut
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Stargaze wrote:
Ad 1) Used utilities are not turned face-down but upside-dow, so that the card is face-up but the text is pointing towards your opponent. So the lion affects all utilities in play.
Besides, the german wording is not 'face-up' but '[...]ausliegend[...]' which means 'cards in play'.

@M.Dorn: The question was not if the previously used cards stolen by the lion are ready after the lion action but if used cards are affected by the lion at all.

Ad 2) I'm not the game designer, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to play two Wise Men in one turn.
BUT: As I see it, playing the Dancer ist not a sales action, thus should not be affected by the Wise Man. At least the german version of the Dancer says ( translated by myself): 'play a wares card with three wares and place any 3 wares back to the supply. Take the gold as listed on the wares card [...]'. It is not played together with a wares card, changing the sell wares action, but it's actually an action by itself. At least that's my interpretation.


I agree with your first answer, which is how we played it.
About the second answer, we have always played it when one person have wiseman and dancer, he can play them both and get 2 less for buying and 2 more the selling. I guess it can be interpreted the other way too, like you said.
 
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Maja Dorn
Germany
Pfofeld
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hello kai,

if i had read is question... excuse me!


Ad 1) Used utilities are not turned face-down but upside-dow, so that the card is face-up but the text is pointing towards your opponent. So the lion affects all utilities in play.
Besides, the german wording is not 'face-up' but '[...]ausliegend[...]' which means 'cards in play'.

@M.Dorn: The question was not if the previously used cards stolen by the lion are ready after the lion action but if used cards are affected by the lion at all.

ups!!!! it´s a problem of the american version!!?? because they face-down used utilities? oh no...... better you turn used utilities 90° or 180°!!! then they are always in play.....

Ad 2) I'm not the game designer, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to play two Wise Men in one turn.
BUT: As I see it, playing the Dancer ist not a sales action, thus should not be affected by the Wise Man. At least the german version of the Dancer says ( translated by myself): 'play a wares card with three wares and place any 3 wares back to the supply. Take the gold as listed on the wares card [...]'. It is not played together with a wares card, changing the sell wares action, but it's actually an action by itself. At least that's my interpretation.

yes, kai you´re right! the kombo wise men and dancer is not possible...

best regards
rüdiger dorn

 
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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There should be no question if the Lion and Crocodile allow you to use "used" utilities. The utilities are only turned 180 degrees as a reminder that the utilities have been used by the owner on his/her turn. At the end of his/her turn, the cards are turned back to normal. This is specifically mentioned in the English rules (read the last rule under the utility card section).
Since the cards are never turned 180 degrees on the opponent's turn and a player cannot use utilities on the opponent's turn, it is technically impossible for a utility to be "used" when attempting to take them with the Lion or Crocodile.
 
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