James Murray
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I just got Descent 2nd Edition with lair of the wyrm and I'm getting slammed as the overlord. I've played 3 quests so far with my buddies and lost all of them. Maybe I'm just really bad at this game, but I really do try my best to go for the objectives. The monsters I choose from just seem too slow and die too quickly. I was wondering if the Conversion Kit will help swings things more in my favor. Will it? Or will it just make things harder for me.

The reason I didn't get the conversion kit was because it didn't include any miniatures and I don't have any good proxies to work with. I was thinking of maybe making some stand ups for them. I realize that this is going to be a daunting task considering there are 50 monsters and 48 heroes, but I really can't afford to buy the first edition and expansions right now and don't want to spend a ton of money on proxy minis that don't exactly fit this game.

So I'm guessing I'll have to make do with stand ups. Does anyone have any tips on how to make them? Do the conversion kit cards tell you what size the monsters are? How can I be sure to make the bases the right size so that they take up the right amount of space on the board? What bases should I get? What sort of cardboard should I use? How can I ensure that the pictures I'll be printing out to use with the stand ups will be the right size?
 
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Alex Martinez
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Well, first of all, if you're getting creamed by the Heroes, then you're probably doing something wrong. Some monsters are certainly more worthy than others (especially depending on the scenarios), but you shouldn't be getting beat that bad. If so, the new monsters probably aren't going to change that.

But putting that aside, you can also easily substitute figures that come with the game for any hero or monster. It's not like you'll be confused by it. But if it's important to you to have figures that match, I'll just say I have no clue and I'm sure someone will come along who can give you useful advice on that.

But, just to repeat, if you think the conversion kit is going to make you a more powerful overlorld, you're going to be disappointed. It just gives you more options. But, even if you don't have any of the matching figures, more options is certainly nice to have.

As an owner of the original Descent and its expansions, it's nice that all those figures I bought are still worth having around (or at least some of them), and content wise, the conversion kit adds a wealth of stuff.

Just don't expect it to solve your Overlord problem. That's all I'm saying.
 
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James Murray
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I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. The heroes just do way too much damage and I can't move my monsters fast enough to complete the objectives. I'm playing against a champion and a berserker. The champion buffs the berserker (who can reroll his attack die whenever he misses), and the berserker one shots most of my monsters. He 2 shotted Valyndra in the Gold Diggers quest. The heroes also have too many hitpoints and have too many tricks up their sleeves to recover. Most of the cards I draw do nothing more than slightly inconvenience them, but don't help me much.
 
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Thought Id share this with you regarding making your own standups.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/960373/diy-season-1-prom...
 
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James Murray
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That's neat. I never heard of shrinky dink paper. I'll have to try that out. Does that stuff fit in normal printers?

I'm guessing the alternative is to buy the first edition and expansions. Which expansions would I need to get all of the miniatures?
 
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Yeah. It comes in normal size sheets.
You may have to work with it to get your printer to take it.
Mine for instance, I have to tape a piece of paper on the back side of the shrink dink otherwise my 'smart' printer cant see the edges and just spits it out.
Once printed you cut out the piece.
Put it in a toaster oven, with a small piece of card board on top.
And back. It shrinks to about 1/3 original size and thickens up.
It will come with instructions and tips.
It can be pricey, but the result are cool.

As for 1st Ed.
Base game
Well of Darkness
Tomb of Ice
Altar of Despair
 
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Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?
 
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Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Im waiting on my Bones figures order to come in.
It actually has about 10 familiars in it.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/familiar
 
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Hey James, I do laser cutting, and I have a design just for this purpose.

http://lyrisstudios.com/laser/monster-replacement/

My website's a little out-of-date; I'm finishing up a Kickstarter and then have plans to redo the site.

Anyway, it's a whole bunch of flat tokens designed to stand in for the Conversion Kit monsters.

I also have a set of generic hero pawns to stand in for characters: http://lyrisstudios.com/laser/generic-hero-pawns/

Send me a message at barry@lyrisstudios.com; I'd love to help you out if you're interested.
 
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Barry!
Fancy meetin you here.

Barry does great work.
Ive a custom cut SDE scoreboard and tokens done up.
As well as some player tokens, dice towers, and Eclipse battle board.
Great quality.
 
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ropya wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Im waiting on my Bones figures order to come in.
It actually has about 10 familiars in it.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/familiar

I was about to write the same thing - Also going to use mine for Descent..

In any event, as I've put up on the spare parts list, I have half of the heroes from the 1st edition core box available. If anyone has a few interesting miniatures to trade, I'll be happy to ship them. Otherwise I'll send them for free.
 
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Branimir Tkalec
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I got myself copy of Descent 1.0 in foreign language for very good price just for the miniatures. It doesn't matter which language is for those minis. Saved on shipping too. Expansions? Gone. But its still 80 miniatures.
 
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Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho
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grubman wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho


THIS +1000!

Im in to Heroscape, so you dont have to tell me anything I dont already know.
If you think Descent prices are bad, look at Heroscapes
Aquillas Alliance I believe retailed for $19.99 a few years back.
Youre LUCKY if you can find it complete, in decent used condition, for under $200. It 5 big creatures. Thats it.
And Ticilla Jungle is another one. Retailed for $19.99. Youll be paying $150 for it now.

The Zombies, retailed for $15 I believe for 2 squads of 3 figures each.
Youll pay $25-30 for ONE squad of 3, used.

And those are the average prices.

On to Descent. Road is ridiculous, it doesnt even have figures and people are asking $150+.

And while I do agree that its harsh to be charging the money people are.
On the other side of that, if people didnt pay it, they couldnt charge it.
If no one would pay more than $100 for the base game, then eventually the prices would come down near, if not to that. Average prices now is $150+.

Its sad. For sure. I say Rant on.
Especially about the fact that its just sitting in the closet collecting dust and not being played.
On that subject, there was a listing on ebay not too long ago.
One of everything for Heroscape, ever made, Think retail was about $600? All MIB, was asking a minimum $5,000. And would not split it up.
 
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James Murray
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grubman wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho


I wonder of FFG is kicking themselves for not putting the first edition games back in print after they released the conversion kit. It's ridiculous that people are spending that much on a board game just to get the minis.
 
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grubman wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho


Eh, disagree. I have all of the first edition Descent stuff. I'm not selling it, because I like the game. But, if I were to try selling it, I'd look at what the going price is and set my prices accordingly. That's just simple commerce. If the market will bear the price, then it's an appropriate price. And when I sell a game, I'm not acting as a charity or taking it upon myself to rid the world of the gameless. I'm just getting a return on my investment.

In the case of Descent, it has 100% to do with rarity, collectability, and supply/demand. If the games weren't OOP, they'd be commonly available, and no one would pay high prices. If everyone who owned it wanted to sell it, prices would likewise decrease.

As for people being "desperate" enough to pay the high price, let's keep things in perspective. We're not talking about life-saving medication or anything. We're talking about a hobby. Little plastic knights and dragons. No one is "desperate."
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James Murray
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beri wrote:
Hey James, I do laser cutting, and I have a design just for this purpose.

http://lyrisstudios.com/laser/monster-replacement/

My website's a little out-of-date; I'm finishing up a Kickstarter and then have plans to redo the site.

Anyway, it's a whole bunch of flat tokens designed to stand in for the Conversion Kit monsters.

I also have a set of generic hero pawns to stand in for characters: http://lyrisstudios.com/laser/generic-hero-pawns/

Send me a message at barry@lyrisstudios.com; I'd love to help you out if you're interested.


How much for the monsters and heroes from the kit? How will it look when it's done?
 
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James Murray
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DavidT wrote:
grubman wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho


Eh, disagree. I have all of the first edition Descent stuff. I'm not selling it, because I like the game. But, if I were to try selling it, I'd look at what the going price is and set my prices accordingly. That's just simple commerce. If the market will bear the price, then it's an appropriate price. And when I sell a game, I'm not acting as a charity or taking it upon myself to rid the world of the gameless. I'm just getting a return on my investment.

In the case of Descent, it has 100% to do with rarity, collectability, and supply/demand. If the games weren't OOP, they'd be commonly available, and no one would pay high prices. If everyone who owned it wanted to sell it, prices would likewise decrease.

As for people being "desperate" enough to pay the high price, let's keep things in perspective. We're not talking about life-saving medication or anything. We're talking about a hobby. Little plastic knights and dragons. No one is "desperate."


I find it funny that people are treating a consumption good, like a board game, as an investment. I can understand looking at it as an investment if you're painting the miniatures and selling it back since, assuming you're doing a good job painting, you actually are putting more value into the game than it had when you first bought it (of course, to some hobbyists, this might devalue the game). But if it's simply a used game that's sitting around collecting dust or wear and tear than it would actually depreciate the value over time.

The only reason people are paying high prices right now is because they're currently out of print, and a conversion kit that uses parts from them was recently released. But just because you sold it off at an advantageous time does not make it an investment, it's still a consumption good and you ultimately are taking advantage of people you're selling it too, since the value of the game will inevitably go sharply down once someone releases the minis at a more reasonable cost or something better comes out.

It kind of reminds me of the housing bubble, though on a much smaller and less serious scale (it is plastic toys after all as you pointed out). People treated housing, a consumption good, as an investment because they were temporarily increasing in value. Those that sold off the bad investment at the right time made out like bandits. Those left holding the barrel were screwed. The same thing happened with cars in the 1920s until nearly everyone who could afford a car owned one by the end of the 20s. Uh oh, people aren't buying cars anymore. Crash.
 
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Gianthogweed wrote:
DavidT wrote:
grubman wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho


Eh, disagree. I have all of the first edition Descent stuff. I'm not selling it, because I like the game. But, if I were to try selling it, I'd look at what the going price is and set my prices accordingly. That's just simple commerce. If the market will bear the price, then it's an appropriate price. And when I sell a game, I'm not acting as a charity or taking it upon myself to rid the world of the gameless. I'm just getting a return on my investment.

In the case of Descent, it has 100% to do with rarity, collectability, and supply/demand. If the games weren't OOP, they'd be commonly available, and no one would pay high prices. If everyone who owned it wanted to sell it, prices would likewise decrease.

As for people being "desperate" enough to pay the high price, let's keep things in perspective. We're not talking about life-saving medication or anything. We're talking about a hobby. Little plastic knights and dragons. No one is "desperate."


I find it a bit strange that people are treating a consumption good, like a board game, as an investment. I can understand looking at it as an investment if you're painting the miniatures and selling it back since, assuming you're doing a good job painting, you actually are putting more value into the game than it had when you first bought it (of course, to some hobbyists, this might devalue the game). But if it's simply a used game that's sitting around collecting dust or wear and tear than it would actually depreciate the value over time.

The only reason people are paying high prices right now is because they're currently out of print, and a conversion kit that uses parts from them was recently released. But just because you sold it off at an advantageous time does not make it an investment, it's still a consumption good and you ultimately are taking advantage of people you're selling it too, since the value of the game will inevitably go sharply down once someone releases the minis at a more reasonable cost or something better comes out.

It kind of reminds me of the housing bubble, though on a much smaller and less serious scale (it is plastic toys after all as you pointed out). People treated housing, a consumption good, as an investment because they were temporarily increasing in value. Those that sold off the bad investment at the right time made out like bandits. Those left holding the barrel were screwed. The same thing happened with cars in the 1920s until nearly everyone who could afford a car owned one by the end of the 20s. Uh oh, people aren't buying cars anymore. Crash.


Google wrote:

in·vest·ment
/inˈves(t)mənt/
Noun

2. A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.


How are board games not an "investment," under this definition? I buy them because they will be useful to me (for entertainment). I take good care of them because I know that, very often, they increase in value.

As for your assertion that selling someone a product, at a price that person is willing to pay, is somehow "taking advantage" of that person... well, that's just hogwash. Inevitably, the "sour grapes bunch" gets bent out of shape because they want something that they can't afford. It's a simple as that.

For Descent 1.0, specifically, it is not at all accurate to say prices are so high because of the conversion kit. The prices are so high because the game is gone and not coming back, and many people believe it is significantly better than Descent 2.0.
 
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James Murray
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DavidT wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
DavidT wrote:
grubman wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?


Rant to follow...

I'm pretty disgusted with the gamer community as a whole when it comes to this. The first edition minis aren't expensive because they are rare or valuable, they are expensive because everyone these days is a sleazy opprotunist trying to take advantage of other people. This has nothing to do with rarity, collectability, or supply and demand, people are just asking crazy prices in the hopes that someone will be desperate enough to pay...then other people see these crazy prices and think they are normal, so that's what they want. It's nuts!people who arent playing a game should be getting the product into the hands of people who will (especially younger people without deep pockets...but lots of time to play). It's like those people who have a piece of artwork locked away so nobody can enjoy it.

Mho


Eh, disagree. I have all of the first edition Descent stuff. I'm not selling it, because I like the game. But, if I were to try selling it, I'd look at what the going price is and set my prices accordingly. That's just simple commerce. If the market will bear the price, then it's an appropriate price. And when I sell a game, I'm not acting as a charity or taking it upon myself to rid the world of the gameless. I'm just getting a return on my investment.

In the case of Descent, it has 100% to do with rarity, collectability, and supply/demand. If the games weren't OOP, they'd be commonly available, and no one would pay high prices. If everyone who owned it wanted to sell it, prices would likewise decrease.

As for people being "desperate" enough to pay the high price, let's keep things in perspective. We're not talking about life-saving medication or anything. We're talking about a hobby. Little plastic knights and dragons. No one is "desperate."


I find it a bit strange that people are treating a consumption good, like a board game, as an investment. I can understand looking at it as an investment if you're painting the miniatures and selling it back since, assuming you're doing a good job painting, you actually are putting more value into the game than it had when you first bought it (of course, to some hobbyists, this might devalue the game). But if it's simply a used game that's sitting around collecting dust or wear and tear than it would actually depreciate the value over time.

The only reason people are paying high prices right now is because they're currently out of print, and a conversion kit that uses parts from them was recently released. But just because you sold it off at an advantageous time does not make it an investment, it's still a consumption good and you ultimately are taking advantage of people you're selling it too, since the value of the game will inevitably go sharply down once someone releases the minis at a more reasonable cost or something better comes out.

It kind of reminds me of the housing bubble, though on a much smaller and less serious scale (it is plastic toys after all as you pointed out). People treated housing, a consumption good, as an investment because they were temporarily increasing in value. Those that sold off the bad investment at the right time made out like bandits. Those left holding the barrel were screwed. The same thing happened with cars in the 1920s until nearly everyone who could afford a car owned one by the end of the 20s. Uh oh, people aren't buying cars anymore. Crash.


Google wrote:

in·vest·ment
/inˈves(t)mənt/
Noun

2. A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.


How are board games not an "investment," under this definition? I buy them because they will be useful to me (for entertainment). I take good care of them because I know that, very often, they increase in value.

As for your assertion that selling someone a product, at a price that person is willing to pay, is somehow "taking advantage" of that person... well, that's just hogwash. Inevitably, the "sour grapes bunch" gets bent out of shape because they want something that they can't afford. It's a simple as that.

For Descent 1.0, specifically, it is not at all accurate to say prices are so high because of the conversion kit. The prices are so high because the game is gone and not coming back, and many people believe it is significantly better than Descent 2.0.


I think you completely misunderstood my post, but I'm really not interested in getting into an argument over this.

I'm more interested in your last statement. Is Descent 1.0 better than than 2.0? I've only played 2.0 so I'm not sure what I missed out on in the original. What was the main difference?
 
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Frankly, I would be the wrong person to ask. I own and love Descent, and I'm not letting go of it. I looked at 2.0 reviews and commentary when it was released, with an eye on supplementing with it. The impression I got from that research was that 2.0 is shorter, but that it achieves the reduced game length by stripping away most of the complexity. More of a tactical miniature game now, as opposed to a true, meaty dungeon-crawl.

Maybe others could chime in who have played both?

If you get a chance to play D1, you should definitely try it. It's a significant time investment, but it's worth it. And, combined with Road to Legend, it's a glorious thing.
 
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Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?

I'll sell my set with road to legend and the promo figures for $400.
 
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ddavidc wrote:
Gianthogweed wrote:
Damn, that's about $800 for all four of those games used. Stand ups it is. How did you handle the familiars?

I'll sell my set with road to legend and the promo figures for $400.


That's awfully nice of you. But I've actually changed my mind. I'm not planning on getting the conversion kit. It's a little too much to manage and too expensive to get all the minis. I just started playing and want to get used to the core game before I go nuts with extra stuff. I'm actually thinking of selling Lair of the Wyrm after we get through this campaign. If I change my mind down the road, I'll let you know.
 
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Wait. Before you give up on the conversion kit, realize that it isn't going to overwhelm your game. It just adds more options, but you still only have to manage so many monsters and heroes at a time.

If you MUST have matching models, well, then, yes, it is way too much work. But if you like the idea of injecting a little variety in your game (actually a lot of variety) it still might be worth picking up.

I have it, and while I do have all the models from 1E, I would probably still be very happy to have it just for the sake of some cool variety.

On the other hand, if you're just not enjoying the game enough, then, yeah, little point in buying it.
 
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Making standups is cheap.
Of course, if one feels that plastic figures are mandatory, it is not the way to go.
 
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