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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Determination Clarification rss

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Simon Andrews
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I'm new to the game so please forgive my ignorance on what is probably a very simple matter. I know the card says to DISCARD a Pilot critical hit, but this doesn't make sense in my head. Surely it would make more sense to flip the card face down but still take the standard damage.

Why would a pilot's determination prevent the ship from taking any damage on a critical?

So, what I'm really asking is: Is this ability supposed to be played exactly as it says on the card?
 
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Andreas Krüger
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SalieriUK wrote:

So, what I'm really asking is: Is this ability supposed to be played exactly as it says on the card?


Yes. The damage is minor to the ship, but the pilot is wounded. Your pilot is so determined that he just ignores the injury and is not affected at all.
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Simon Andrews
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Ok, thanks a lot for the help. It still seems a bit weird to me, but hey - this is a game, right?
 
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Derry Salewski
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But if you read the pilot crit cards, they are damage to the pilot, not the ship. If I shoot a laser through the side of your cockpit, your ship is fine, but your heads gone and you're probably out of the game by then.

But if you take this card, you're just really good at ducking!
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Simon Andrews
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But any critical damage card counts as 1 (or more) hull damage, so the ship is still normally damaged by a pilot critical when not using Determination.
 
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Derry Salewski
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SalieriUK wrote:
But any critical damage card counts as 1 (or more) hull damage, so the ship is still normally damaged by a pilot critical when not using Determination.


Yes, it's a debilitating two damage when I blow of your head.

Or just be mildly annoyed by it not making sense if you don't like other people's thematic interpretations!

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Brian Huhtala
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Are there two different printings of Determination? I seem to recall mine saying to flip down face-up pilot crits, but I'm seeing other people posting about discarding pilot crits.
 
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Eric B.
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SalieriUK wrote:
But any critical damage card counts as 1 (or more) hull damage, so the ship is still normally damaged by a pilot critical when not using Determination.


Any critical card counts as one (or more) damage to the ship-and-pilot compound agent. This is tracked, generally, by "Hull Points," but doesn't necessarily mean that all damage is structural damage to the ship's hull.

 
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Eric B.
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Brian1981 wrote:
Are there two different printings of Determination? I seem to recall mine saying to flip down face-up pilot crits, but I'm seeing other people posting about discarding pilot crits.



If you're using English, non-translated cards, then no there is only one printing of Determination (though it's very commonly misread in just the way you've stated). But they all say "discard."
 
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Simon Andrews
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Is it really a compound agent though? Not only do I not really buy that pilot and hull damage is cumulative, but also I don't see how a pilot can recieve damage without the ship also taking damage - these aren't Sopwith Camels we're talking about.

Anyway, this is getting somewhat beside ht point. Thanks very much for all the comments.
 
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Brian Huhtala
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To make things even more complicated, even if you discard that face-up damage card (and take no damage), your ship was still "hit", and you'd lose your stealth device, if you had one.

That text is still bugging me though... Gonna have to check my cards when I get home. I'm 99.9% sure they say "flip face-down"...

Edit: Nope, I was wrong. Determination absolutely says to discard face-up pilot crits. Not sure what I was confusing it with...

 
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Jeff Dunford
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SalieriUK wrote:
Is it really a compound agent though? Not only do I not really buy that pilot and hull damage is cumulative, but also I don't see how a pilot can recieve damage without the ship also taking damage - these aren't Sopwith Camels we're talking about.

Anyway, this is getting somewhat beside ht point. Thanks very much for all the comments.


Have you read the damage cards? Some of the "Pilot" cards are called "Blinded Pilot," "Injurred Pilot" and "Stunned Pilot." It seems intuitive to me that if you take out the pilot, you take out the ship...

A R5-astromech and Chewbacca are good at taking care of various types of damage to the "Ship" (e.g. flipping down "Ship" damage cards). A "Determined" pilot ignores injuries. Perhaps its odd that the card gets discarded rather than flipped face-down, but it makes sense mechanistically for its cost. Only about 1/4 of the damage cards are "Pilot," while about 3/4 are "Ship." For 1 squad point, R2-astromech flips down about 3/4 of the face-up damage cards (including the particularly nasty "Direct Hit!" double-damage cards), while Determination discards 1/4 completely (and the ones it discards tend not to be as bad as the "Ship" cards, which can often cause further damage either immediately or in future turns).

Here is a complete list of the damage cards.
 
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Simon Andrews
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I can totally see how and why it works in terms of the game mechanics, but a 75% damaged hull + a 25% injured pilot =/ a destroyed ship for me, thematically speaking.
 
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Davyd A
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SalieriUK wrote:
I can totally see how and why it works in terms of the game mechanics, but a 75% damaged hull + a 25% injured pilot =/ a destroyed ship for me, thematically speaking.


Does it help to think of a destroyed ship as including not just ones that went ka-blooie, but also the ones that are no longer combat capable - physically intact, but just drifiting through space?
 
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Mads Halling
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Going to the original movie, a lot of the ships that were destroyed in the Battle of Yavin weren't because they exploded, but because they were damaged enough to fly into the Death Star (and then go ka-blooie, of course). This can be generalized to being a ship that flies into an asteroid, which by imperial mandate, all battles must be close to.
 
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