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Subject: The 233rd Edition of the TGIF Poll rss

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Ben Lott
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If you want updates on when new TGIF polls are posted, or want to look at the results of past polls go to The TGIF Poll Subscription Thread.

Poll: The 233rd TGIF Poll
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Twilight Struggle
38.0% 147
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
52.7% 204
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
9.3% 36
Voters 387
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Agricola
57.8% 223
Puerto Rico
37.6% 145
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
4.7% 18
Voters 386
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Eclipse
62.5% 240
Android: Netrunner
30.2% 116
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
7.3% 28
Voters 384
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Power Grid
60.2% 234
Le Havre
36.0% 140
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
3.9% 15
Voters 389
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Mage Knight Board Game
44.0% 169
Brass: Lancashire
49.5% 190
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
6.5% 25
Voters 384
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Caylus
52.2% 202
Dominion: Intrigue
42.1% 163
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
5.7% 22
Voters 387
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
7 Wonders
60.8% 236
Dominion
34.0% 132
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
5.2% 20
Voters 388
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
The Castles of Burgundy
52.6% 200
El Grande
44.2% 168
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
3.2% 12
Voters 380
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Dominant Species
54.0% 207
Race for the Galaxy
40.5% 155
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
5.5% 21
Voters 383
If you were playing games with a new group and they split up to play these 2 games, which would you play?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Ora et Labora
40.6% 154
Tigris & Euphrates
52.2% 198
I'd leave rather than play these 2 games
7.1% 27
Voters 379
This poll is now closed.   391 answers
Poll created by Blott
Closes: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:00 am


11. How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?

Any discussion is encouraged.
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Tom P
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Quote:
4. How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?


Couldn't care less.
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Ben Lott
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1. I'd have to try Twilight Struggle, since it's been #1 for so long.

2. I didn't care for Agricola, so it would be time for me to try Puerto Rico.

3. I get the impression that Netrunner is shorter, so I'd pick that one.

4. I have to get Power Grid off my unplayed list!

5. This is probably the pairing I have the least interest in. I suppose Mage Knight would win because of theme.

6. I'll choose any version of Dominion over almost any other game.

7. Ditto.

8. I need to play El Grande so I have one more SdJ game checked off my list.

9. I was ho-hum on Race, so I'll give Dominant Species a chance.

10. I'm a Knizia fan, so I'd need to try Tigris & Euphrates.

11. Not closely at all, in fact I only go there when prompted by someone else's post. I noticed that someone mentioned certain special editions were no longer showing up, so I wanted to check it out, and that prompted today's poll.
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Eric Brosius
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I check out the BGG top games every few weeks, usually in response to a post asking some question about games that involves the rankings. I don't feel everyone ought to rate the same games highly that I rate highly, and I don't feel I ought to play the highly-ranked games even if I don't like them. For example, even though Eclipse is all the way up there are #5, I played it once and decided it's not the game for me (I rated it a _5_, which means it's an objectively fine game that I don't really want to play.)

Fortunately, I almost never seem to be faced with a decision between playing a game I don't like much and leaving. I usually wouldn't leave---I'd try to play the game even if I weren't crazy about it. But there are some games where I'd be a detriment to the group's enjoyment. If the group was going to play Trajan or The Castles of Burgundy, I'd stay and banter, but not play. I would be happy to do this, but my groups would almost certainly switch games rather than leave me out, even though I wouldn't mind being left out on the rare occasions upon which it might happen.
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Yeah, I really don't care about where the ratings go. I actually think that the rankings are one of the worst things about the site, because they mostly encourage bickering and pointless debates. True, they're useful for new gamers. But even then, I think a better move would be for new gamers to find a good group who can cultivate their tastes, rather than a list of games they will feel like they MUST BUY before they've actually figured out what they like best. (Warning from personal experience.)

But even if you leave all of that out, there's really little overlap between my own top ten and that of BGG. I have one game (Twilight Struggle) that is shared on both lists. Any Top Ten list that leaves off Cosmic Encounter doesn't have a lot to offer me.
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Darrell Hanning
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Quote:
How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?


It's amusing, sort of in that way 5 minutes of a reality show while surfing the channels is amusing.
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I follow what games are top of the rankings, to know which games I might be interested in trying. Althought I didn't vote for any of the untried ones in the polls above, if I get the opportunity, in a group I know are good to try new games with, I would often try one of the untried games. I pay more attention to play data than rankings data are a rule though - the reason I do my Most Played Geeklists is that I care far more which games are good to play regularly, than which games are highly rated, but for whatever reason rarely hit the table.
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For almost every choice, my answer would depend heavily on player count and experience level, especially for games like Through the Ages or Mage Knight, for example. Though these games are among my favorites, they suffer with new players or high player counts, respectively. I basically voted on my favorite game of the pairing assuming ideal counts with experienced players.

I follow the rankings with some interest, as my tastes generally align fairly well with the populous BGG opinion. There are some notable exceptions, though. I can't see the appeal of Lords of Waterdeep, and like Eric, Eclipse rubs me the wrong way.

I enjoy with Top 100 analysis for the week and the top 50(?) from each month that users put out. I like to watch how game ranks trend over time, which I guess is the stats junkie in me.
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I don't pay attention to game overall rankings -- I had no idea Puerto Rico was no longer #1.

Of the 20 games listed I've only played 2 (Agricola and Power Grid) so all my choices were mostly random based on theme. Playing two games of Thunderstone completely turned me off of deck-builders, so I would automatically play whatever else was offered. If the choice was between two deck-builders, I'd probably leave.
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Blott wrote:

11. How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?


When I was first getting into this hobby and hyperbuying everything because all games were new and automatically interesting, I would follow the Top 100 pretty closely, or at least use it as a jumping-off point for learning what was out there. The Top 100 really helped me chase that sense of wonder I got from my very first few plays of Catan or Carcassonne. But my lustful passion for Eurogames wore off mighty quickly after playing Castles of Burgundy, Ora et Labora, and Le Havre, and once I started needing to turn the lights off to help me profess my devotion to Euros, it was clear that we were growing apart and that a permanent wedge had been driven between us and that no amount of corrective action could get us back to The Way We Were. Our private time together was mechanical and automatic, we were polite and gentle with one another, and deep down, I was craving something more interactive, more risky, more naughty. My tastes had evolved, I discovered the Internet had more niches, and I started getting into really kinky stuff with trains, stuff that came with the thrill of getting caught while tweaking a value in public, stuff you don't talk about in proper Euro company without drawing strange looks, stuff you need Chrome's Incognito Browser for. Choo-choo, man. These games aren't in the site's Top 100, but man, there's more to a lingerie catalog than flawless airbrushing.
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Kevin Whitmore
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Quote:
How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?


Not much. I voted on all the games, and only when I was done did I figure out you had paired the top 20 in the match ups.

I'm pretty flexible, and will generally play what the group wants. But about half of these games only register as a 5 or 6 for me. Their high ranking doesn't entice me. So while I'd play, I'd have chosen something else in many of these match ups.
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This was an interesting poll as I voted typically for games I haven't played or haven't played much as compared to ones which I think are better games. For instance, Eclipse is probably my favorite game and Netrunner is certainly in my top 10 but not as high as Eclipse. I'd rather play Netrunner any day because right now I only get to play once a month at best and the shifting card pool really demands more frequent attention.

As to the question, I only rarely actually check the rankings page. I do keep a wayward eye on the rankings though usually when browsing a game page or when others talk about rankings. I find high value in the rankings as they gave me a strong list to go off of when I found this site years ago. My tastes definitely coincide with the rankings as long as I keep my personal tastes in mind (more thematic, less Euro). Currently, I take notice when a game not on my radar moves into the top 100 or top 50 and make sure to check it out.

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blott wrote:
4. How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?

Don't look, don't care. I play what I like and can talk people into playing with me (not always the same thing).
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1. Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization as Twilight Struggle does not interest me.

2. Agricola is, for me, a more interesting game that has not been over-analyzed to death.

3. Eclipse. Nothing against Android: Netrunner - I have not played either game. Still, it seems a waste to jump into a two-player game if the games group has enough people to play something larger.

4. This is a tough one, as I really like both games. I will give the edge to Power Grid, but I would be happy in either group.

5. Another tough one. I will give the edge to Brass, simply because it is a quicker game. I need to get Mage Knight Board Game to the table at some point soon, though.

6. Another tough one. Dominion and its expansions really rise and fall depending on the cards in play in a particular game. Intrigue has more cards that annoy me than almost any other set (this is not to say that it is the worst set - Alchemy has that honor, but has fewer cards to be annoyed with), so I have to lean towards Caylus.

7. They just don't get easier, do they? Let me say that I love both of these games. Dominion is the first game that I rated a 10. Still, as mentioned above, the card set being used can make or destroy the fun. 7 Wonders does not have that problem for me, and it can scale to much larger numbers and stay fun. I have to give the edge to 7 Wonders for those reasons.

8. Another excellent pairing. At the moment, I enjoy Castles of Burgundy more than El Grande, though, so I would be joining that table.

9. At last, an easy choice. I loathe Dominant Species and enjoy Race for the Galaxy, so I would be scrambling to get to the Race for the Galaxy table. If I didn't get there fast enough, I would leave.

10. Both good games, I prefer Ora et Labora.

Blott wrote:
11. How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?


I don't. I did at one time, but I am much more selective in what I pick up and play these days.
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When playing with a new group, I try to play games that I haven't played before or games I have a hard time getting to the table, so my answers varried both on difficulty of game chosen and length of game based on if I had played the game before.

As for the rankings, I follow them simply as a way to measure general trends in how people appreciate each game. They have little influence on how much I personally will like the game.
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Let's see, I'd play:
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization. In a new group, I'd like to play with more than one person, just in case (s)he turns out to be a complete bore.
Agricola. The better game, but it might depend on my mood for the day.
Eclipse. Same as with Through the ages.
Caylus. I'm not a big fan of Dominion, but again, it might depend on mood and how long time I want the game to be.
7 Wonders. If it's already decided that we should play a hour-long card game, I take 7 Wonders over Dominion any day.
El Grande. This is almost a coin toss really. El Grande is a great game, but on the other hand I haven't played Burgundy and that one looks quite interesting so tomorrow the answer may be quite different for me.
Dominant Species. I really want to play that one, but I don't have it yet so it's a perfect time to try it out.
Tigris & Euphrates. Another coin toss with T&E as the old classic and Ora&Labora as the unplayed newcomer.

11.
Not a s closely as I used to. But I have researched all top 20 games, and will continue to do so when it changes.


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1) Through the Ages, because I've never played it and want to try it. I like Twilight Struggle enough that I'd play it again, but not enough that I'd seek it out.

2) Agricola. I like both, but prefer Agricola. (Well, most of the time...)

3) Netrunner. I liked the old version (haven't played Android). In a somewhat similar real-life situation, we were splitting between Eclipse and Battlestar Galactica (the latter being one of my favorite games), and since most people wanted to try Eclipse I went with the BSG group. Having seen bits and pieces of that game, I don't suspect I'd like it.

Edit: Ben, Netrunner is WAY shorter than Eclipse. During aforementioned split, the BSG group (in which 2 of the 4 players had never played it before) finished a good hour before the Eclipse group. And BSG is not a short game. I finished my learning game of the WotC Netrunner inside of an hour, in which neither of us had played.

4) Power Grid. I like Le Havre, but Power Grid is my favorite multiplayer game.

5) Brass. I've never played it. I tried Mage Knight at a con and hated it; we didn't get through the whole game, and I would give it a second chance, but not over something I'm actually interested in trying. (I've actually never even played a Martin Wallace, believe it or not.)

6) Intrigue. I like both, but if nothing else, we could play 4 games of Intrigue in the space of one game of Caylus, and I think I like Intrigue better anyway.

7) Dominion. Again, 7 Wonders is good, but Dominion is better.

8) El Grande. I haven't played either (and would happily try either), but I'm more interested in El Grande.

9) Race. Similiarly to Eclipse, I saw Dominant Species played once when my group split and it doesn't seem like I'd enjoy it.

10) Ora, because I've never tried it, though I like T&E so I'd take one for the team if too many people wanted to play Ora.

11) Not very closely (there were a few surprises on this list for me, assuming it reflects the current order of the top 20). For a while, I would check it now and then and anything that was higher than the highest game I rated 7 or lower went on my list to try (figuring, if they're highly regarded, I might just like them too). But then Twilight Struggle is a 7 for me, which ended that run My favorite game of all time is still Stratego, which isn't even in the top 2000 any more, so I don't put too much stock in them (though, as above, I do at least enjoy the majority of the games in the top 20).
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Brad N
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I found it interesting than for many of these choices I did not select the game I liked better. Instead, I often picked them game I hadn't played for longer. Not always, since I just don't have much interest in Mage Knight (for example).

Blott wrote:
How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?

I definitely pay some attention. Generally, I try to play games that approach the top of the rankings. I figure if the community here likes them then it's probably something I should experience at least once so I can see for myself.
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Generally I'm going to go in favor of a game I haven't played so I can try something new. That would lead me to choose Le Havre, Caylus, and Ora.

When it's 2 games I've played, I'll just go with the one I'm most itching to play at the moment. That would lead me to choose PR, 7 Wonders and Burgundy.

DS is an easy choice, because I don't like RftG.

The tougher choices are when I haven't played either. So I went with those that I'm most curious about right now - but I wouldn't turn down the chance to try their counterparts. I picked TS, Eclipse, and Brass.

I give some attention to the rankings, but stopped following them obsessively now that we have the multiple edition problem mucking them up. Until that's resolved, the Top 10/50/whatever isn't terribly meaningful.
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I follow the top 100 loosely, but it is more out of curiosity than a list of games I have to experience. I have some friends who keep up with the latest games all the time, and they keep introducing new games to the group. I usually prefer to play games I already own and know how to play, as opposed to continuously buying the latest hotness, playing it for a few months, then letting it become a shelf decoration with all the other previously new hotness games. I learned that from being a M:tG player for many years. (-: Although, I do enjoy a new game from time to time, just not as often as game companies produce them.

I was hoping for a choice of "would play either one" in addition to "would rather leave than play either" because there were games paired together that I enjoy playing both, and I didn't want to have to choose one over the other. Although, if both groups of people are staring at me asking which one I want to play, I'd have to choose one or the other, so maybe this point is moot.
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For nearly all these questions, I could choose between a game
I knew (and probably like) and one I've not played. In each such,
I chose the one I had not tried - because I like to play new
things more than anything. But, that depends a lot on the group -
some groups expect players to be familiar with games, and I'd probably
rather just not play than do so with such.

Quote:
How closely do you follow the what games are at the top of the BGG rankings?


I don't even know what this is. A GL? Or just paying attention
to what ranks are. Early on, I was excited about ranks - but
they move slowly enough that I'm just shocked when things (like
MLPHS) finally get the recognition they deserve!


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I'm very aware of the game rankings. I find it fun (that is the sports stat geek in me). Do I put stock in it, sure I do. It is a consensus on what people feel about the games, as a whole. Do I live by it? No, not at all. Some awesome games just are not my bag. Also, when you really look, games are seperated by a hundredth of a point.

The choices were tough on some.
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I guess I really don't care about the rankings. I play what I like to play and and fun with that. I don't really care if they are "popular". If I'm having fun... that's all that matters.
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d10-1 Funny that the group would be splitting between a multiplayer game and a two player game. Must be just that one hold out that's desperate to play TS. I would be okay with either, although with a brand new group and games I've never played before, I'd choose TS first so I didn't get trapped in a really long game where I might not know all of the actual rules.
d10-2 I picked Agricola, but I'd be more than happy to play either of them. Although, I might stay away from PR with this group if I found out it was in really heavy rotation with them and they had their established "script".
d10-3 Haven't played either of these, but Eclipse has always looked pretty interesting.
d10-4 I love Power Grid and would choose that without hesitation. I've played Le Havre and was unimpressed with it - for most of the game I found myself wishing it was Agricola.
d10-5 I'd be willing to try either, but MK would be my first choice.
d10-6 Either would be fine, but I'd prefer Caylus because I so rarely get to play it.
d10-7 Either would be fine, but with a new group I'd go with 7 Wonders until I knew a little more about the playing styles of the group. I prefer to play Dominion as more of a "casual" game where there's time to put together fun combos and such, not the brutal, win-as-quickly-and-efficiently-as-possible game that some people try to make it. Chapel decks, etc.
d10-8 Neither is of particular interest to me, but I'd be willing to try either.
d10-9 Either would be fine, but I'd probably go with RFTG first.
d10-0 Never played either, but T&E sounds more interesting.

d10-1d10-1 I like to check the standings from time to time, but mostly just for curiosity. A highly-ranking might increase my interest if I'm investigating a game, but I don't seek out games just because they're highly rated.
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Just call me Erik
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Blott wrote:

2. I didn't care for Agricola, so it would be time for me to try Puerto Rico.



4. I have to get Power Grid off my unplayed list!



10. I'm a Knizia fan, so I'd need to try Tigris & Euphrates.


*Chokes on his sandwich*

How have you managed not to play these three games??!!

If you ever come to Waldorf I'll fix the first two, and probably the third. These are some of the mainstays of gaming in the last decade or two.

EDIT: I don't follow ratings generally....my tastes are so all over the place if I stuck to ratings I'd have never found half the games I like.
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