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Subject: Missing the Murderer rss

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Christopher Peter

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So I've tweaked the difficulty up to make things better for me (in my case, I just eliminated the support car in solo play). But I'm still running into a problem: I *never* see the murderer.

In eight games now, I either lose to the Crime Track or I solve the case before Turn 16 (usually well before 16). I understand that there's plenty of luck involved in this, but has anyone else had a similar experience? I'd like to experience the game play of actually pursuing the murderer on the board, but it never happens.
 
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brian
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drkrash wrote:
So I've tweaked the difficulty up to make things better for me (in my case, I just eliminated the support car in solo play). But I'm still running into a problem: I *never* see the murderer.

In eight games now, I either lose to the Crime Track or I solve the case before Turn 16 (usually well before 16). I understand that there's plenty of luck involved in this, but has anyone else had a similar experience? I'd like to experience the game play of actually pursuing the murderer on the board, but it never happens.

Even if you find all the evidence, you still have to arrest the murderer. The goal is not just to solve the crime but to arrest him for it as well.

Just because you "solve" it in real life doesn't mean it is over until the guy is behind bars and now int he legal system.
 
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
drkrash wrote:
So I've tweaked the difficulty up to make things better for me (in my case, I just eliminated the support car in solo play). But I'm still running into a problem: I *never* see the murderer.

In eight games now, I either lose to the Crime Track or I solve the case before Turn 16 (usually well before 16). I understand that there's plenty of luck involved in this, but has anyone else had a similar experience? I'd like to experience the game play of actually pursuing the murderer on the board, but it never happens.

Even if you find all the evidence, you still have to arrest the murderer. The goal is not just to solve the crime but to arrest him for it as well.

Just because you "solve" it in real life doesn't mean it is over until the guy is behind bars and now int he legal system.


As was posted on the Commonman site FAQ, you get an auto win if you fill the crime board before the murderer is on the board. HOWEVER, this is easy enough to change. Just rule that you have to arrest him instead (especially in a one or two person game). OR, just start with the turn marker on turn five instead.
 
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brian
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Petdoc wrote:
As was posted on the Commonman site FAQ, you get an auto win if you fill the crime board before the murderer is on the board. HOWEVER, this is easy enough to change. Just rule that you have to arrest him instead (especially in a one or two person game). OR, just start with the turn marker on turn five instead.

Well that's stupid. The rules state if you solve the murder you wait until the murderer comes out and still must arrest him, don't they?
 
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Petdoc wrote:
As was posted on the Commonman site FAQ, you get an auto win if you fill the crime board before the murderer is on the board. HOWEVER, this is easy enough to change. Just rule that you have to arrest him instead (especially in a one or two person game). OR, just start with the turn marker on turn five instead.

Well that's stupid. The rules state if you solve the murder you wait until the murderer comes out and still must arrest him, don't they?


They dont actually specifically cover that corner case. Acctually, if you read the first discussions about it, the publisher (and developer?) gave a quick answer to the question with a comment that implied they didnt think it would happen anytime soon. They have since confirmed it in the FAQ, but I think they have been a little surprised by how quickly it came up. I cant imagine it would be an issue with more than two players.
 
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drkrash wrote:
So I've tweaked the difficulty up to make things better for me (in my case, I just eliminated the support car in solo play). But I'm still running into a problem: I *never* see the murderer.

In eight games now, I either lose to the Crime Track or I solve the case before Turn 16 (usually well before 16). I understand that there's plenty of luck involved in this, but has anyone else had a similar experience? I'd like to experience the game play of actually pursuing the murderer on the board, but it never happens.


Hey Christopher!

It sounds to me like your style of play is very "All-or-Nothing".

I'm sort of guessing of course.

If I'm right...

You could try focusing more on the crime in the city (growth of Punk population, Emergencies, etc.).

The result of this should be that you can see the murderer land on the board while the crime track is still under control.

Let me know if that helps.

PS - Congratulations on your exciting and fast victories!!!

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
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brian
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Petdoc wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Petdoc wrote:
As was posted on the Commonman site FAQ, you get an auto win if you fill the crime board before the murderer is on the board. HOWEVER, this is easy enough to change. Just rule that you have to arrest him instead (especially in a one or two person game). OR, just start with the turn marker on turn five instead.

Well that's stupid. The rules state if you solve the murder you wait until the murderer comes out and still must arrest him, don't they?


They dont actually specifically cover that corner case. Acctually, if you read the first discussions about it, the publisher (and developer?) gave a quick answer to the question with a comment that implied they didnt think it would happen anytime soon. They have since confirmed it in the FAQ, but I think they have been a little surprised by how quickly it came up. I cant imagine it would be an issue with more than two players.

Wow, that is how I always read it. Especially since the rules state "The game ends immediately with a WIN for the Good Cops once they arrest the Murder Suspect. In order to
make the arrest, the murder suspect MUST be identified by successfully completing the Murder Investigation
Board."

The emphasis appears to be on ARRESTING.

Again, besides a bit of gaminess by just sitting around waiting for him to pop up, this doesn't make much sense. Waiting for him to come out, you still have a chance to lose because events could stack against you and crime could override the city.

Why would the police just stop with gathering the evidence and not arresting him? And if they are so focused on just him, the rest of the city is falling down. You haven't balanced your duties so don't deserve to win.

I understand I can house rule it and will but I still don't get the design decision for this. (And for what it is worth, we actually ran into this in a 6-player teaching game so it is not limited to just low player count with high number of turns).
 
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Jake Staines
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

Why would the police just stop with gathering the evidence and not arresting him?


I read it as just: prior to coming onto the board, the murderer is thinking he's got away with it; when he comes on the board it's because he's started to flee the city. Before he starts to flee the city it's easy to arrest him because you can just go to his house and pick him up; after he starts running it's harder, because he's going out of his way to be hard to find.

So if you fill the murder board before he comes out then you win, because you can drop a car around his house, take him by surprise and pick him up without incident. It doesn't have to be one of the detectives on the case, any old cop will do, so the players don't have to go out of their way to perform the actions.

After he comes out, even if you know who he is, you have to track him down... which is abstracted in game terms (as all other event resolution is abstracted) by having to go to the right 'hood and make a successful arrest roll. And which is a job for the detectives on the case, of course, because it's part of the investigation!





It's no different, to my eye, to the way that you only have to cure all four diseases in Pandemic, you don't have to go around and clean up all the cubes left on the board afterward. Even though should you have to, you might plausibly get enough outbreaks after you've come up with cures but before you've finished cleaning up that you could still lose the game.
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Common Man Games
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Also, just to remind everyone that...

The difficulty can be tweaked in quite a wide range of ways, and this is important for...

Families who want an easier game for a wider range of ages and abilities, and for...

Serious gaming groups who find that they are winning too often.

The methods of doing this are explained on page 13 of the rules.

Also...

BTW - one thing we do want to include in the first expansion pack are some tools to tweak the difficulty even further.

So for example...

More "nothing yet" cards for the evidence stacks.

This will enable groups to make the game a little harder by adding a card or two, or...

MUCH harder by adding many cards to the assorted decks.

wow

We here at CMG enjoy enabling you to...

Make your lives more difficult!

 
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Christopher Peter

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Once again, I don't want it to seem like I'm ragging on the game or CMG; I've been playing it quite a bit lately because it is fun. I just want it to be more fun.

I like your expansion idea of extra cards in the investigation decks a lot. There are presently a lot of ways to manipulate these decks which moves things along (too) quickly. This would be an addition I would embrace.

But referring to the perfectly valid methods to tweak the game's difficulty in the rulebook is not the sole response to the kinds of issues I (and no doubt others) have encountered. Right now, I've only found two modes to the game: too easy and too hard, and that's using suggested tweaks from the rules. I think the reality of finding all the evidence in advance should have been better addressed in playtest, because it clearly isn't the rare event the website suggests that it is. One shouldn't be encouraged to play significantly suboptimally just to increase potential fun, regardless of the number of players.

Here's what I'm going to try (and what I think might be a fix that works for me): when all the evidence is collected, if it is before Turn 16, the murderer appears in Hood 6 and starts moving. In this way, you still need to run him down, but you don't have to endure several turns for no reason waiting for turn 16. Hope this might be helpful for others in my situation.
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drkrash wrote:


Here's what I'm going to try (and what I think might be a fix that works for me): when all the evidence is collected, if it is before Turn 16, the murderer appears in Hood 6 and starts moving. In this way, you still need to run him down, but you don't have to endure several turns for no reason waiting for turn 16. Hope this might be helpful for others in my situation.


Christopher,

Sounds like you are well on your way to discovering a good "House Rule".

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

I would like to comment that...

If you (or anyone else) is able to discover a "house Rule" that is so cool (in some way shape or form) that you think it is deserving of being an Official Variant. Please email me.

What is "An Official Variant" exactly?

You might be wondering.

Well...

It would be something that we would sanction and publish.

This publishing might happen on the website, and / or in an expansion pack's rule-book, and / or ________(in some other way).

For example...

One of the fans of the game is currently working on a variant for a 2-person Dirty Cop game. Wouldn't that be cool!

Sssssoooo...

Yes, we are open to your help with making the game even better!

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Clinton Coddington
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drkrash wrote:

Here's what I'm going to try (and what I think might be a fix that works for me): when all the evidence is collected, if it is before Turn 16, the murderer appears in Hood 6 and starts moving. In this way, you still need to run him down, but you don't have to endure several turns for no reason waiting for turn 16. Hope this might be helpful for others in my situation.


I like this, I may just use it. In a thematic sense, it's like word is on the street that cops are going to be making an arrest soon so the murderer is getting nervous and tries to bolt sooner.
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KillerTaco wrote:
drkrash wrote:

Here's what I'm going to try (and what I think might be a fix that works for me): when all the evidence is collected, if it is before Turn 16, the murderer appears in Hood 6 and starts moving. In this way, you still need to run him down, but you don't have to endure several turns for no reason waiting for turn 16. Hope this might be helpful for others in my situation.


I like this, I may just use it. In a thematic sense, it's like word is on the street that cops are going to be making an arrest soon so the murderer is getting nervous and tries to bolt sooner.


I agree, this sounds excellent. I'm gonna try it
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Cindy Nowak
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drkrash wrote:

Here's what I'm going to try (and what I think might be a fix that works for me): when all the evidence is collected, if it is before Turn 16, the murderer appears in Hood 6 and starts moving. In this way, you still need to run him down, but you don't have to endure several turns for no reason waiting for turn 16. Hope this might be helpful for others in my situation.


This reminds me of what would happen when someone found out that they were about to appear on an episode of America's Most Wanted. Grab your stuff and make a mad dash to get out of town. Well, of course, some guys just turned themselves in, but...
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Jeff Davis
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Common Man Games wrote:


...we are open to your help with making the game even better!



Some people in your position would be put off (and even insulted?)by other people trying to change a game. Good see you have a healthy and positive attitude about this. Its almost as if......you are looking at the LONG TERM future of this game (and others you may develop).

- SK
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