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Subject: Navy and Rebels...weak? rss

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Christopher James
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Anyone find these especially weak when fighting sith/jedi?

I find the power units and control of sith and jedi just walk all over me when I try the non-force user affiliations.

I will say that if I get 2 blaster encampments out I stand a chance as rebels...but navy doesnt seem to have a prayer against sith control.

Anyone got any tips?
 
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Matthew Jensen
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Why are you playing Navy against Sith Control? Has there been a coup in the Empire along with the Rebellion?
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Hal Martin
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Are you using 1 or 2 core sets?
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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TrekkerMJ wrote:
Why are you playing Navy against Sith Control? Has there been a coup in the Empire along with the Rebellion?


I think he is saying comparatively.

Navy decks are capable of blowing up objectives very fast, forcing the light side to play more defensively. They probably aren't as strong with the current cards available, but they will surely improve as more cards come along.
 
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Christopher James
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MasterDinadan wrote:
TrekkerMJ wrote:
Why are you playing Navy against Sith Control? Has there been a coup in the Empire along with the Rebellion?


I think he is saying comparatively.

Navy decks are capable of blowing up objectives very fast, forcing the light side to play more defensively. They probably aren't as strong with the current cards available, but they will surely improve as more cards come along.


Thats my feeling at the moment.

I find I have way to many resourses as well..thinking of dumping tarkin pod

2 core sets
 
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Matthew Saloff
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This is a rebellion, isn't it? I rebel.
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Both Imperial Navy swarm decks with Orbital Bombardment and new Vader, and Rebel swarm decks can quickly overrun Jedi and Sith decks if things go the right way.

The problem right now is they aren't *as* consistent at being able to do that as Jedi and Sith decks are at doing what they do. But they could still surprise you and end games in like 3 turns if they find the right stuff.
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Dustin
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Both are very capable. The guy that constantly wins our tournaments runs navy & rebel. His rebels are unbeated now in what, 3-4 months. Just gotta know how to use them, make sure you are not clogging your deck with stuff that don't go with it (like leia). You shouldn't be struggling against since control, since it doesn't do good against vehicles.
 
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Christopher James
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SeerMagic wrote:
Both are very capable. The guy that constantly wins our tournaments runs navy & rebel. His rebels are unbeated now in what, 3-4 months. Just gotta know how to use them, make sure you are not clogging your deck with stuff that don't go with it (like leia). You shouldn't be struggling against since control, since it doesn't do good against vehicles.


What does he use instead of leia?
 
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Hal Martin
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Rebel tends to have stronger units than the Navy. I find the Rebel vehicles lean toward objective damage, but the Navy seems to have more unit damage icons. While this can be changed with Orbital Bombardment, and Navy Vader, they inherently do not do much objective damage. This can really hurt early game. I often see Navy decks with too much resources as well, and while plenty of resources is good, too much means wasted cards, and many of those cards don't even get force icons, so they don't do much for edge battle at the very least. That is something to watch when building Navy decks.

I disagree about the Rebels being weak. They can swarm just as fast as a Navy deck, but with unit damage icons as well as objective damage icons, they can be formidable. The amount of target of opportunities that can go into a Rebel deck is sick. I run with 6. Home One can be devastating with it's bonus damage. The new Hoth Rebel cards are no joke either. Rogue 3 with an Astro Mech or Wedge...

While the Navy can pull off some quick wins, I certainly feel they are the weakest of the 4 main factions right now. It seemed in the first Hoth expansion with Vader, they are trying to remedy that and make them more formidable, but there is still a step or 2 to go. As well, I just don't seem to find them as fun as the other 3 to play... Going to have to work on them a bit, and see if anything helps.
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Matt Lernout
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I agree just about word-for-word with Hal's posting above.

I personally love the Rebels and the flexibility and direct damage they are capable of. They may not have the resilience the Jedi have, but they certainly have the tools to overcome the Sith or Navy.

I'm not big on the Imperials, though I have traditionally been a fan of control and midrange style decks over aggressive ones and find myself gravitating to Sith much more frequently with some of the stronger Imperial sets as a supporting splash. Once more Scum sets appear though, I fear the Navy may end up taking a backseat in most of my builds without some sort of enticing kicker.
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Pauli Vinni
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I think that navy deck will benefit from those droids that can be playd from the discard pile, because they just produce so much resources, so it is easy to cycle your dead droids back devil
But it is a balance thing... And it is allways wice to spice navy deck with something else, like rebels are guite good with smuglers...
 
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Scott Egan
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The short answer is, yeah kind of.

The long answer is a bit more complicated.

In regards to Navy:

They have 2 units with the Tactics Icon. One is Tarkin, the other is the AT-ST Commander who is a 2 cost 1 health unit with only an edge enabled icon. So they have one good unit with the tactics icon, sadly he is unique. Because they have so few tactics icons the only way they control enemy units is by actually killing them. Not having Tactics icons also means you are at the mercy of your opponents Tactic icons, particularly the Tactics Twileks. You are forced to block them or lose a blocker regardless.

Because they only have one unit with Targetted Strike (TiE Attack Squadron) most of the time the only chance they get to kill enemy units (which as established is their only way to consistently control them) is during an engagement in which those enemy units are actually participating. So now you have to win an edge battle, open up your own units to be struck and killed, to get a chance to kill something before they can strike you.

Now in case you haven't heard it can be really hard to kill units coming out of the Jedi/Smuggler deck, between Guardians, Spirits, Questionable Contacts, and Lightsaber Deflect. So now if they set up well enough, you don't even have a chance to use your control.

Rebels don't have that damage absorption ability but playing Navy does open you up to Rebel tricks between X-Wing Escort and their direct damage effects (which do kill alot of the Navy's low health units). And then you are back to the basic issue of the fact that what if you don't kill what you strike? Home One and Rogue 3 both have 3 health and Rebel has a lot of Shield abilities.

Navy's one control pod (Take Them Prisoner) has 3 cards in it that really just aren't good. And Detained despite having huge upside in getting around protection requires you to let the unit strike, and then you hope it doesn't get cancelled.

So you have a DS affiliation that has really weak control, that just doesn't work well for the side that has the clock on their side. Sure they can try and race the LS and destroy objectives, but that just isn't going to end well in many cases as LS decks have to take fewer objectives in a race and are better suited at doing so.

In regards to Rebel:

As stated Rebel just doesn't have the resiliency that Jedi/Smuggler have. Also like Navy they have a total of two units with Tactics icons. All of which are edge enabled, both are on expensive units with two health (super Force-Chokeable), though Ackbar is still amazing.

Rebel is the fastest deck in the game, win or lose, it will do so quickly. But it has zero ability to deal with a moderately supported Palpatine or a strong opening from the opponents decks. Unless you can kill Palpatine right away, he's a game winner. And you need two Rebel Assaults or Ackbar and Rebel Assault to do so. That all doesn't matter if your opponent has a Royal Guard or a Imp Suppression. You just won't win the edge battles as Rebel against Sith and Palp will lock out your three best units before they even get to strike, letting his buddies mop up. Unless you can get alot of Shields out, there is little you can do.

Overall Rebel heavy is the better deck then Navy heavy, but Navy Objectives are more splash-able in Sith heavy decks then Rebel are into Jedi heavy.

Quote:
You shouldn't be struggling against since control, since it doesn't do good against vehicles.


You mean Force Choke, Icetrompers, Intimdated, and Force Stasis don't work against vehicles. But what stops the Tactics icons, Interrogate, or Succumb to the Cold? Considering that the Tactics icons are the best control overall (most available, most consistent) Rebel is still in trouble. Especially when they just won't win an edge battle under all but the oddest circumstances against Sith. And while Vehicles are resistant to Force Choke, Vader can always react off a choke aimed at his minions to kill a Y-wing/Snowpeeder/Damaged whatever. So how exactly does Sith Control not work against vehicles, when it's best control option still works?

I honestly have to conclude that you are playing the rules behind Tactics icons incorrectly and not applying them to all units not just ones in the engagement, or that your playgroup is really tossing up some softballs to this player. Rebel or Navy can win some game, and could even as a result take a tournament on occasion, but to go unbeaten for 3-4 months with a Rebel deck is just nonsensical.
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