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Subject: Adjusting the starting powers rss

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Ryan Smith
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Chantilly
Virginia
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The general consensus seems to be that each faction has one starting power that is weaker than its other. After reading Rob Daviau's post about how he would change one of Khan’s powers, I started thinking about ways to re-balance the others. I've listed my ideas below; comments and criticisms are welcome!

Khan Industries
POWER B: When drawing a territory card, you may place two troops into that territory if you control it.

This is Rob's change.

Saharan Republic

POWER A: You can make your maneuver at any point during your turn. You may maneuver between any two territories you control, even if they are not connected.

POWER B: You may maneuver between any two territories you control, even if they are not connected. If you did not conquer a territory, you may make a second maneuver.

Maneuvering between unconnected territories in both powers is not a typo; I think it works in both.

Die Mechaniker
POWER B: If your defense roll of natural, unmodified doubles defeats two attacking troops, a third attacking troop is also defeated.

I probably didn't make it as clear as it could be, but the idea is that Die Mechaniker can’t use any modifiers to trigger this power – the doubles have to win before any bunkers, fortifications, defensive missiles, etc., take effect – but the attacker can use modifiers to prevent it.

Enclave of the Bear
POWER B: If all three of your unmodified attack dice are higher than all of the defense dice, an additional defending troop is defeated.

I wanted to keep the “trigger on triples,” but it just happens too infrequently. Plus I always feel bad for that 3rd attack die; he never gets to shine.

Imperial Balkania
POWER B: When recruiting troops, add 10% to your territory and population total, rounding down. Then round up, not down, when dividing your territory and population total by 3.

This one I’m least sure about, because though the original power doesn’t seem that strong, the two campaigns I’m playing both use it, and IB is the winning-est faction in each. (Granted, there are other considerations.) So it’s only a minor bump – IB would get five troops at 12 territories/population now instead of at 13, and then eight at 20 instead of at 22. (And more above that, but at that point, they've probably already won.)


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mar hawkman
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I like the ideas for Khan B and both of the Saharan ideas. Granted, the Saharan powers are useful, but the B power is barely there.

DM: would you keep the barrier effect of the original? As-is the new one seems weak. you not only need doubles, BUT you also have to kill 2 enemies.

Enclave: I like it.

IB's unter-power is pretty weak IMO. Getting 1 more troop 1/3 (or is it 2/3?) of the time is kinda lame. The new IB should round UP in both places otherwise the first part of the power will only trigger if they have 10 or more territories. For comparison:

#terr;default/oldIB/newIB/proposed change#2
1; 1/1/1/1
2; 1/1/1/1
3; 1/1/1/2
4; 1/2/2/2
5; 1/2/2/2
6; 2/2/2/3
7; 2/3/3/3
8; 2/3/3/3
9; 3/3/3/4
10;3/4/4/4
11;3/4/4/4
12;4/4/5/5
13;4/5/5/5
14;4/5/5/5
15;5/5/6/6
16;5/6/6/6
17;5/6/6/7
18;6/6/7/7
19;6/7/7/8
20;6/7/8/8

Ok.... that change was also inconsequential.... I think IB#2's REAL problem is that their power doesn't activate when they only have a few territories. proposed change #3: "When recruiting troops, round up, not down, when dividing your territory and population total by 3. Then add 10% to your total troops recruited, rounding up."

So let's see how that plays out:
#terr;default/oldIB/newIB/proposed change#2/#3
1; 1/1/1/1/2
2; 1/1/1/1/2
3; 1/1/1/2/2
4; 1/2/2/2/3
5; 1/2/2/2/3
6; 2/2/2/3/3
7; 2/3/3/3/4
8; 2/3/3/3/4
9; 3/3/3/4/4
10;3/4/4/4/5
11;3/4/4/4/5
12;4/4/5/5/5
13;4/5/5/5/6
14;4/5/5/5/6
15;5/5/6/6/6
16;5/6/6/6/7
17;5/6/6/7/7
18;6/6/7/7/7
19;6/7/7/8/8
20;6/7/8/8/8

That made a difference. Not a dramatic difference but now they always get at least 1 extra troop, maybe more if they have a lot of territory.

EDIT: Left out something. The +10% would be taken into consideration after bumping the # recruited up to 3 if lower. thus they would always recruit at least 4.
 
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Washington Irving
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I agree that the round up power is weak for Imperial Balkania, but when modifying it I don't want to step on Khan's toes.

As I see it, Khan Industries is supposed to be good at getting troops every turn, while Balkania is supposed to be good at expanding very rapidly. The round up power seems like it was supposed to reward Balkania for having a lot of territory. What if we changed it to trigger at the end of their turn?

New Imperial Balkania Power
If have more than 9 population, place an additional troop in a territory you control after completing your maneuver.

or

After completing your maneuver place additional troops equal to the number of Continents you control

Something to encourage reckless over-expansion, the same way the card for expanding into 4 territories does.
 
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Ryan Smith
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You may be right about DM's power still being a little weak. How about only 1 attacking troop needs to be defeated, instead of both? And I hadn't even considered keeping the double 6 barrier effect; I like that. Maybe even keep the auto-win effect for Enclave, too, since it's even more unlikely.

The problem with IM getting an extra troop right from the start is it makes that power initially identical to Khan's "extra troop in HQ" power, except it's unquestionably better. Since IM's theme is supposed to be spreading far and wide, I wanted the extra troops to kick in only after the territory count starting getting high. (Plus that makes it a nice counter-point to the other IM power, which gives rewards right away, but lessens as the game goes on.)

How about raising the territory bonus to 20% (still rounding down)? That had been my initial thought, but I was worried it was too strong. Here's how that would play out:

#terr;default/oldIB/IB+10%/IB+20%
1; 3/3/3/3
2; 3/3/3/3
3; 3/3/3/3
4; 3/3/3/3
5; 3/3/3/3
6; 3/3/3/3
7; 3/3/3/3
8; 3/3/3/3
9; 3/3/3/4
10;3/4/4/4
11;3/4/4/5
12;4/4/5/5
13;4/5/5/5
14;4/5/5/6
15;5/5/6/6
16;5/6/6/7
17;5/6/6/7
18;6/6/7/7
19;6/7/7/8
20;6/7/8/8

The biggest change is IM would get five troops at 11 terr/pop, which is early, but probably not unfair.

Good thoughts, thanks!
 
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Ryan Smith
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I like the idea of IM getting troops at the end of their turn. (EDIT: Even better, the troops can only go in newly taken territories.) How about:

Imperial Balkania
POWER B: At the end of your turn, add your number of controlled territories to your population and divide by 5, round down. Add those troops to one or more territories you did not control at the beginning of your turn.
 
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mar hawkman
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That sounds good for DM.

To me, the inherent flaw in the old IB#2 power is that it doesn't do anything unless you control at least 10 territories. Early game it's useless, completely. you can't use it at all until mid - late game and only if you manage to get a lot of territory. Unless you can keep and hold 10+ territories it doesn't do anything, at all, ever.

Hmm... but that comment about rampant over expansion made me wonder.... Maybe make it something a lot simpler? Such as, giving you continent bonuses at the end of your turn(redeploy) instead of the beginning?

EDIT: you seem to have had a similar idea.
 
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Sporktopia Games
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How about rather than percentages added for IB you go with 1 troop per 2 territories controlled, still rounding down and then divide population plus the remainder, if there is an odd number of territories, by 3 rounding down.

Let's say you have 3 population this would yield:
territories/normal/IB current/IB proposed:
1/3/3/3
2/3/3/3
3/3/3/3
4/3/3/3
5/3/3/3
6/3/3/4
7/3/4/4
8/3/4/5
9/4/4/5
10/4/5/6
11/4/5/6
12/5/5/7
13/5/6/7
14/5/6/8
15/6/6/8
16/6/7/9
17/6/7/9
18/7/7/10
19/7/8/10
20/7/8/11

So the bigger the land coverage the better the bonus, but you're looking at a troop or two until you start owning most of the board, which should be the goal of IB.
 
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Ryan Smith
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Sporktopia, I'm not sure I follow your math; could you maybe show an equation, please? The one issue I could see with giving IM (or anyone) extra bonus from population is it could potentially turn a couple nearby cities into its own mini-continent.

Also, I just ran the numbers for Enclave and DM, and assuming I didn't make a mistake, they wouldn't be very frequent:

DM (updated as discussed to require only 1 defeated attacker): 9.72%
Enclave: 6.65%

I don't know what the ideal numbers are, but those feel low. However, adding in the original B powers (barrier for DM, auto-win for Enclave), and allowing Enclave to use modifiers to trigger this new power, might be sufficient.


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mar hawkman
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Oh, I think Spork's suggestion is basically: When recruiting troops, instead of dividing your total population by 3, divide it by 2.
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Sporktopia Games
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Right. So it'd be round down(territories/2)+round down(population +[1 if odd number of territories, 0 if even]/3).

It'd basically provide for a faster bonus for taking territories than what is offered, but leaves the population at the normal level. You get less advantage in that you are still rounding down, but but can start getting bonus armies at 8 territories instead of 10 and even quicker if you have a major city to start in.

When you think about it, the other IB power doesn't give you 2 cards unless you expand 9 territories (minimum 1 troop for 2 coins worst case) and this gives you a bonus army once you get 8 territories (if 0 population. Then the choice between the two becomes, get a shot at a couple large multi-coin cards for 9 territories or find a population boost/expand faster to get at the quicker territory bonus.
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Marc Kingsbury
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the power should be simple

the power could be:
When recruiting troops double you city's population.

It can be expensive early in the game but still force you to expand to get the bonus.
And it show how good they are in converting civilian to military.

It can give you a bit more that the KI power but your opponent can try to deny you your power, and some event can help you and other hindered you.
 
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