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Subject: Kickstarter Campaigns and New BGG Users rss

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Eric Etkin
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Just curious...

Is the board gaming "community" native solely to Kickstarter all that independent of BGG? Pretty much daily there's posts about an "awesome new game on Kickstarter" that pop up here and - typically - the user posting about his/her campaign is new to BGG.

Maybe it's because I'm operating with blinders on, but I would think that most of the potential backers of KS boardgame projects would already be here - ditto for newbie designers. No? It just always seems like BGG is a total afterthought, when I'd think if there was any degree of pre-campaign legwork going on, that shouldn't be the case...

Because if the KS boardgame community is radically independent of BGG, this makes me rethink potentially what other online venues I should be pitching my own KS board game project when it's launch time.

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Ian Taylor
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It could be that they are an existing BGG poster who doesn't want their game to be associated with their posting history for whatever reason.
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Dustin Schwartz
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I would think that your gut reaction is correct, MOTHDevil. When designers/publishers show up on BGG touting their newest "groundbreaking" game with "never before-seen" mechanics, it indicates a lack of market research.
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Caleb
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piemasteruk wrote:
It could be that they are an existing BGG poster who doesn't want their game to be associated with their posting history for whatever reason.


Almost 100% certainty this is the case.
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Thomas
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Yeah, it's rather suspicious and obvious what they are doing.
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Daniel J Isom
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Two points:

1) I know a lot of new game designers will go to BGDF.com and the people there refer them to here when they start posting about their Kickstarter project. Some of them have never even heard of this site which is kind of shocking to me and makes me wonder if they're in it for the money.

2) There are people like me who have used this site for years, lurking on the forums but never created an account. I finally decided to create an account because I am working on some games of my own that are far from Kickstarter ready and I thought it would be a good idea to immerse myself into the community.

It is an interesting question about the independence of the KS board game community.
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Eric Etkin
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piemasteruk wrote:
It could be that they are an existing BGG poster who doesn't want their game to be associated with their posting history for whatever reason.


Honestly - it never even occurred to me that someone might do that. Honestly, the last thing I'd want to do is erase any sort of history I might have here - good or bad posts, I still would stand by what I said... I'd like to think that ultimately that would lend me at least a couple bits of cred.

It just seems sloppy to post as "new" user touting a game. To me it just conveys a complete lack of experience or history with the hobby and BGG in general.

If it's a legit newbie, I guess that's fine (though I'd still hope they'd have done more legwork prior to launch).
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CHAPEL
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Every time I see that kind of poster I immediately think of those old eBay listing of that guy who is trying to sell his next big board gaming idea for $1 Million. It's usually some really bad looking roll and move game, and we all got a good laugh and thought what an idiot.

Then kickstarter began, and now we actually give that guy money.
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Gene Moore
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When I first had the notion of creating a game and putting it on Kickstarter, my initial research (without even having a game ready, just interested in more info) led me here. That's when I decided to sign up and become a contributor to BGG. So, I don't think there is an independent KS community, because I feel like I would have found it back then.

It's possible that these newcomers who already have an active KS project just haven't done as much research as I did. I don't mean that to be overly critical... maybe they already knew which printer they were going with, and how to handle fulfillment, and so on. I had nothing to go on, so what I was looking for were write-ups about the experiences that people went through in running a KS project, and BGG had that.
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Bryan Thunkd
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disom wrote:
I thought it would be a good idea to immerse myself into the community.

A quick spin through RSP should cure you of that.
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Eric Etkin
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MWChapel wrote:

Then kickstarter began, and now we actually give that guy money.


To be fair, there's probably some sweet mini sculpts in the deal.
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Dustin Schwartz
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piemasteruk wrote:
It could be that they are an existing BGG poster who doesn't want their game to be associated with their posting history for whatever reason.


This could certainly be the case, but it seems counterproductive to me. I couldn't care less if a particular designer has gotten in a flame ware over this game or that game; what I want to see is that they understand the boardgaming world, and that they enjoy playing games as much as the next guy. Excellent case in point:

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Also,

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Ben Wand
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Maybe one possibility for new accounts touting a KS might be that a BGGer is using/has hired someone to help work on their campaign, and in that case creating a new account solely for the purpose of promoting the KS would make sense.
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Rich Shipley
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disom wrote:
1) I know a lot of new game designers will go to BGDF.com and the people there refer them to here when they start posting about their Kickstarter project. Some of them have never even heard of this site which is kind of shocking to me and makes me wonder if they're in it for the money.


Many would-be game designers aren't avid game players. This can occasionally result in something interesting and original, but usually just limits what they attempt to do.
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Ian Taylor
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MOTHDevil wrote:

Honestly - it never even occurred to me that someone might do that. Honestly, the last thing I'd want to do is erase any sort of history I might have here - good or bad posts, I still would stand by what I said... I'd like to think that ultimately that would lend me at least a couple bits of cred.


In your case maybe it would. But there are any number of things in someone's BGG profile that could be held against them as a game designer, whether it be their relative inexperience, or their extremist views on a particular topic or maybe just the fact they have rubbed lots of people the wrong way. Or it could be the other way around, and they don't want their BGG alias associated with shameless promotion attempts of their game.
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Danilo
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I guess that the BGG is losing a lot of revenues, since here could have its own kickstarter tool.

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    Depending on the genre it's not unreasonable for them not to be a serious member here. Wargames and Minis games look at BGG as a secondary source, well worth advertising on but not a primary source of information.

    Not a primary source of sales either by the way.

             S.

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Brook Gentlestream
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In real life (whatever the hell that is), I know seven people who would come over to play board games if I invited them. Among them, three of them are members of my regular gaming group with whom I meet every week. Among those, only one of them has a BGG account, and he never posts, so I'm really their liaison to the larger board game community.

Assuming that holds true for many other gaming groups out there, that means roughly 15-30% of potential customers can be reached through BGG, and that's only including gaming groups who keep well-connected to the online gaming community. When you include the fact that many people embrace board games out of a resistance to online activities, you can see how that number can dwindle.

In addition, most people keep in "connection" with only one or two communities at a time related to each activity, and for many people that connection is with their local gaming store and the people there. There are many people in my local gaming store, for example, who might be into a kickstarter board game, but who are not on BGG because they primarily play collectable games.

Local gaming groups, conventions, gaming stores, and even active facebook pages, can create smaller communities that might detract from people ever needing to discover BGG, especially if one or more members of that community are already connected to BGG.

---

I point this out as a simple reminder that we are not the be-all and end-all of the boardgame community, nor do we even represent a significant mass of it. It's easy to forget that sometimes.

Regardless of the above, it's a big turn-off for me when a "new user" comes to BGG to advertise their game. For this reason, I also generally recommend against advertising your kickstarter game through your BGG user-name or avatar. (Though the geek-banners may be good for this.)
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Tom D.
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Being a new user (first post, actually), I can honestly say I'm surprised anyone tries to gain funding by popping in here as a new user and begging support. I could see a new user asking for advice, but not for money.
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Jennifer Derrick
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There's a guy on a forum I frequent (not gaming related) who has been seeking info. on getting a game agent and finding out how to get Hasbro to produce and sell his "all new, original, pirate game because there aren't any good pirate games on the market." Yet when people on the thread sent him here to look at all the pirate games, it was like, "BGG what?" Never heard of it.

He was so consumed with getting an agent and making his millions, he'd never done any research. I suspect that he got here, saw all the pirate games already in the market and said, "Well, crap, the world doesn't need another roll and move game with a pirate theme pasted on."

I could be wrong. His game could really be groundbreaking but I suspect that if you can't even do basic research about the industry which you hope to break into, your game ain't all that fab.

And so it probably goes with many of the Kickstarter people, too.
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Ralph T
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BGG's not the center of the universe, but not knowing or wading into BGG before you design and begin marketing a game seems a bit like not knowing about Internet Movie Database before you set off to start a fundraising project on a new film with a plot and conceit never before done.
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Like Boardgamegeek or not. If you search for "board game" on google the first result is for this website. So it´s hard to see someone doing "research" for their groundbreaking new boardgame to not see this site.
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mike
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This comes up on linkedin all the time in the Kickstarter/Crowdfunding group and even the game design group

There are simply people out there that do not put any effort into Market Research before launching their campaign. They have not heard of BGG or GAMA or Origins or GENCON or really anything related to the industry

They have a great idea, think that all games are sold by the big mega toy companies like Hasbro and Mattel, probably think that Parker Brothers and Milton Bradley still exist as separate companies and they have probably never been into a game store as they think all games are sold at Toys R US, Wal Mart, all the big box department stores

So yeah I can see why some people get it in their heads that they need an agent, because that's how the big toy companies work, you need someone who works with those companies on a regular basis to even be considered.

When these types get directed to BGG or any other game related site, they create an account and go right into their sales pitch and it never occurs to them that this industry/hobby is a community and they would get better results by engaging the community rather than sounding like a used car salesman.
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The Mad Hatter
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80sgamer wrote:
When these types get directed to BGG or any other game related site, they create an account and go right into their sales pitch and it never occurs to them that this industry/hobby is a community and they would get better results by engaging the community rather than sounding like a used car salesman.


No posts or being a new user does not necessarily equate to someone who hasn't been keeping abreast of the industry or lurking/reading/perusing BGG. Just because they aren't a poster or frequent name in the forums shouldn't discount their game's possible validity. No doubt that some might come off as "used car salesman," but does a high post count give someone a pass for their Kickstarter huckstering?

Or are BGG Kickstarter supporters the kind that like to be wooed and wined and dined and walked to the front door in the evening, before they kiss the project on the cheek?
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Matt Riddle
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I think that in general we think myiopicly (that's not a word prolly) and donot realize how many people go to flgs or amazon and buy "our" games and have no idea we exist. I have other hobbies, this is the only hobby/sports/etc forum I post in.

I have been to yahoo, espn, and rotoworld thousands of times each and nevet posted a message or comment
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