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Subject: How to prevent us from (unintended) cheating? rss

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Pasvik -
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It happend not only with my little son (he did it by purpose ): when picking up to five cards (or six with the right person laid out) at the beginning of each round, it can be sometimes very important to know what color the next card might have (e.g. Once I was blocked for three rounds in building a canal because I didn´t pick up a red card). As the cards are just stacked on piles (what is a must since it determines the end of the game) it is quite easy to unintended whistle have a look at the color of the follwing cards...

Does anybody know a practicable solution?
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James Clarke
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We have a handy phrase that we occasionally use at home

"stop bloody cheating!"
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Pasvik -
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Highland Cow wrote:
We have a handy phrase that we occasionally use at home

"stop bloody cheating!"


Same with me. You might have misunderstood that. My son is seven! And even he knows not to cheat and tries not to do it again....modest
I hate cheating. And as soon as I would notice someone (older than 7 ) is cheating I would have problems to keep on playing...

But: Here it occasionally just happens that the cards shift a bit and you can have a look at the following color. It is just anoying to always look somewhere else while drawing cards, just not to get FORCED to "cheat"!.

So any useful solutions?
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James Deignan
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Not sure if it would help as I don't have this game yet (although I want it) but would opaque backed sleeves help with this issue?
 
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James Clarke
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I'm sorry I chose to completely misunderstand the point you were making. I guess it was my reaction to you playing Brügge, and me not.

Your point is well demonstrated at around 3.25 of Michael Wißner's video.


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James Clarke
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Suggestion to Publisher:
Use the central window of the house to identify card colour.
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Łukasz Małecki
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I think custom card holder would do the trick, though it's not the cheapest solution. For example we use something like this in our Macao games:

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Pasvik -
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Highland Cow wrote:
I'm sorry I chose to completely misunderstand the point you were making. I guess it was my reaction to you playing Brügge, and me not.


No problem.

Highland Cow wrote:


Your point is well demonstrated at around 3.25 of Michael Wißner's video.


Yep, it almost happened there at 3:33!
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Pasvik -
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rednar wrote:
I think custom card holder would do the trick, though it's not the cheapest solution. For example we use something like this in our Macao games:



That is quite cool! Especially since Macao is my favorite game! The cards here are larger, though!

Thanks anyway.


@louper: I think your trays are very cool, as well. Would certainly do!

It seems to be a real problem. Have to find something like that.

Thank you everybody!

 
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Pasvik -
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Zestrenocya wrote:
Not sure if it would help as I don't have this game yet (although I want it) but would opaque backed sleeves help with this issue?


No, unfortunately not, since you might need to know the colors of the houses laid out later in the game. There are some cards/persons gibing you benefits depending on the colors of your houses.
 
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Łukasz Małecki
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The card holder was custom-made by a carpenter, I just provided the dimensions. There's a company in Poland that does such things, you can find them at hobbyzone.pl (the card holder for Macao was very cheap, can't remember the exact price but it wasn't more than 15 euro, closer to 10 I think). They have an english version of their site, so maybe they answer e-mails written in english - always worth to try. It did take some time to make my card holder, but it was a one-time thing for them, not overly profitable, so I guess I can't complain
 
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James Deignan
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I know a great many people use business card holders for games like Arkham Horror and others that require large or copious decks to be out on the table at the same time. Perhaps this would help.

Alternatively, maybe you could use the Fury of Dracula system. Draw off the bottom of the deck, sliding the new card out when the previous card is taken? Not sure if this would solve anything though as the potential to unintentionally reveal extra cards would possibly be even greater.
 
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James Clarke
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Whilst I admit to being unfamiliar with the rules, I am curious to know whether it would spoil the game if you were allowed to look at the colour sequence of the forthcoming cards before you selected your hand? This particular issue wouldn't be an issue then.
 
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Carl Garber
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Some older games(like Canasata and Milles Borne) come with card trays to hold the draw and discard piles. Would those work I wonder?
 
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Steve Duff
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I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you touch a card, you're obligated to take it. You've already made your decision.

So, what difference does it make if you bump the deck and see the colour of the next card while you're taking the card? You're going to see it anyway.

This is only a problem if you're touching the deck without committing to a choice. Which is bad etiquette anyway.
 
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Pasvik -
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Sure, when picking the top card of a deck, you have to take it, and the next cards color is determined. But unfortunately it happens quite often that this second card - while picking up the first - shifts just a bit but which is enough to see the color of the third card. Since you are always picking cards to the total amount of five that point really matters!
 
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Sheldon Smith
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This is an excellent post.

Using some kind of card tray to prevent movement is perfect. It's easily possible for an "unprotected" stack of cards to be nudged to accidentally show the card tops of more than just the next available one.

Sheldon
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Brian Moore
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Amazon sell card trays for 2 decks and 6 decks:
Amazon link
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Andrew Brown
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A simple (maybe annoying) solution that does not involve deck holders:

Every time you draw a card, cut the deck to a new spot to reveal the next available card.

Some people will be bothered by seeing the card they need come up next and then cutting to something else. But, just as frequently you will see a card you don't need and cut to one you do. The randomness of a deck doesn't change even though you are rearranging the cards regularly.
 
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Pasvik -
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you touch a card, you're obligated to take it. You've already made your decision.

So, what difference does it make if you bump the deck and see the colour of the next card while you're taking the card? You're going to see it anyway.

This is only a problem if you're touching the deck without committing to a choice. Which is bad etiquette anyway.


Have a look at the wonderful rule-explanation-video from
Markus Weihrauch
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at 6:46!!
 
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James Clarke
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Here are two alternative suggestions (which don't require any additional materials):

1. You allow players to fan through (face down) the card stacks if they want to. (I don't know whether or not this is in breach of the written rules)

or

2. Change the card drawing procedure to 5 times round the table. (a player draws only 1 card each time round).
 
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James Deignan
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Er...wait.

Can't you just put the deck face down and then flip over the top card each time the top card is taken?

(Note: I have no idea how the game works so this might not be possible depending on the card configuration...I'm just brainstorming stuff with no background! )
 
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Jonathan Er
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Pasvik wrote:
It happend not only with my little son (he did it by purpose :p): when picking up to five cards (or six with the right person laid out) at the beginning of each round, it can be sometimes very important to know what color the next card might have (e.g. Once I was blocked for three rounds in building a canal because I didn´t pick up a red card). As the cards are just stacked on piles (what is a must since it determines the end of the game) it is quite easy to unintended :whistle: have a look at the color of the follwing cards...

Does anybody know a practicable solution?


hi Pasvik

would getting another player take and pass the card to them prevent the "cheating" and "unintended cheating" ?

so the active player says, i want that card ( someone else takes and passes it to him ), so on and so forth




Jon
 
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Pasvik -
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Look at this:

http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/news/newsdetails/news/kartenzie...

They take gamers concerns for serious!!
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Steve Duff
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Pasvik wrote:


I wonder if it'll be in the US release?
 
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