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Subject: Some rule clarifications rss

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Henning D.
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I've bought the game, read the rules and played some. However I came accross the following rule questions for which I'd like to ask for clarification.


1.) How many points for laying Hel?
In the english ruletext it says: "Score one point for each tile adjacent (horizontal, vertical and diagonal) to this tile." However in the german ruletext it says: "(…) Hel-Plättchen (horizontal oder vertikal) angrenzt.". So no points for diagonal adjacent tiles. In the french and dutch rules, diagonal adjacent tiles do also give points. So it seems only germans get less points. Why is that?

2.) Where to play Hel tile after playing Hermod?
In the english ruletext it says: "You may play a Hel tile, as long as it is adjacent (horizontal, vertical or diagonal) to the Hermod just played.". However the german ruletext says: "(...) vorausgesetzt, es grenzt horizontal oder vertikal an das gerade gespielte Hermod-Plättchen (...)". So in the english (and french and dutch) ruletext diagonal placement of Hermod is allowed whereas in the german rule it's not. Why is that?

3.) Does Sea Serpent score with Hel as only line end?
Ruletext: "The Sea Serpent only scores when it has the highest value among all tiles in its row/column including tiles accross gaps (including Hel tiles).".
When I lay Sea Serpent with the only other tile across a gap being Hel, does Sea Serpent score for the gaps in that row? For example, when I lay Hel like shown in the following constellation, may Sea Serpent score 6 points?
Thor, Sea Serpent
Fenrir
Fenrir
Dragon
Fenrit
Dragon, Hel

4.) Discarding a tile optional?
Ruletext: "Play one tile or discard one tile. If you cannot play any of your tiles, you may discard a tile.". Does this mean that discarding a tile is not optional and only allowed if it's impossible to lay any of the tiles currently on hand? In the latter case I would need to show all my hand tiles in order to proof that I cannot lay any of them, right? I just want to clarify because it's not written explicitly in the rulebook.

5.) Also sum-up-value for already played Fenirs?
Ruletext says: "The value of this tile is the sum of all Fenir tiles in the same row or column.". I understand that when I play a Fenir, it's value sums up this way. However, what about the value of the Fenirs that already have been played in previous rounds and are now laying on the table. Is the value of each of them calculated the same way when I try to score with some other tile? For example:
Fenrir, Fenrir, Fenrir
Now I play Thor:
Fenrir, Fenrir, Fenrir, Thor
Does Thor score?

6.) Multi-turns when game ends?
Ruletext says: "The game ends when all tiles are drawn and every player has no tiles left.". That's all information there is. However what's the game end process exactly like? When the draw pile is empty, it may happen (because of Skadi and Hermod) that some player may still have tiles on hand while others may already have empty hands. In this case, when it's the empty-hand-player's turn, he needs to pass. Is this correct? In this case it's possible that a player may have several turns in a row, laying out his remaining tiles - and they need not be Hermod tiles to do so.

7.) Where to play tiles after Hermod?
Ruletext: "After placing Hermod, you may immediately place another tile in the same line as Hermod is placed", and "You may play a Hel tile, as long as it is adjacent (horizontal, vertical or diagonal) to the Hermod just played.". So there is a differentiation between Hel- an non-Hel tiles, and I don't need to play non-Hel-tiles directly adjacent to my Hermod tile in contrast to Hel-tiles, right?

8.) Skadi exchanges dragon or covered tile?
Skadi wants to exchange tiles and chooses a Dragon. Ruletext says: "You can choose a Dragon. The tile covered by the dragon is removed from the game". Just to make this 100% clear: This means I take the Dragon tile to my hand while I put the tile covered by the Dragon in the game box?

9.) Also normal placement of Dragon?
Ruletext: "This tile may be placed on top of another tile.". But is it also allowed to place Dragon normally, that is, place him adjacent to some other tile and not on top? I am asking because in the ruletext for Skadi this is mentioned explicitly: "Place this tile the normal way or exchange a tile (...)" whereas in the ruletext for Dragon it's not. Same question for Jotunn:

10.) Also normal placement of Jotunn?
Ruletext: "You may bump any tile (except Hel) to either end of it's line. If you do, put the Jotunn in its place". But is it also allowed to place Jotunn normally, that is, place him adjacent to some other tile without bumping? I am asking because in the ruletext for Skadi this is mentioned explicitly: "Place this tile the normal way or exchange a tile (...)" whereas in the ruletext for Jotunn it's not.

11.) Can I place Jotunn on top of a tile next to a Troll?
In the rule text of Dragon it says: "You cannot place a Dragon on top of a tile next to a Troll" and in the rule text of Skadi it says "You can't capture a tile next to a Troll". However in the rule text of Jotunn this is not explicitly forbidden. I have my assumption but want to make this 100% clear.

12.) May I discard after playing Hermod?
According to the rules, after playing Hermod I may "immediately place another tile in the same line as Hermod is placed" or I may "play a Hel tile, as long as it is adjacent (horizontal, vertical or diagonal) to the Hermod just played". Now, if I do have tiles left on hand after playing Hermod, but cannot place any of them in the described way, may I then discard a card?

13.) Does a Hel tile beside a Hel tile increase the score?
In the ruletext it says: "Score one point for each tile adjacent (horizontal, vertical and diagonal) to this tile.", but also: "Hel is treated as a gap in a line.". So, if I place a Hel tile beside another Hel tile, does the Hel tile already on the table increase the score I get for laying my Hel tile? Example:
Odin, Thor, Odin
Thor, Hermod, Hel
Odin, Thor, Odin
Now when I place a Hel tile over Hermod, do I get 9 Points, meaning Hel tile on table counts, or only 8?

14.) Can I exchange Skadi with Skadi?
In the ruletext it says: "Place this tile the normal way or exchange a tile on the table with the Skadi and add the exchanged tile to your hand.". The rules don't forbid to exchange a Skadi on the table. However in a two player game this can lead to an endless loop if both players have a Skadi on hand and keep on exchanging a Skadi on the table. For the players it's like passing their turns. Why would they do that? Because they have good tiles on hand that they don't want to waste for few points; instead they want to wait for their opponent to do something that offers them better pointing possibilities. How can such an endless loop be stopped? I suggest: don't allow Skadi to exchange Skadi. What do you say?

15.) First play Hermod then play Sea Serpent in "same contiguous line" ?
In the rules manual it says: "After placing Hermod, you may immediately place another tile in the same line as Hermod is placed.".
In the official Voluspa FAQ (Voluspa FAQ) it says: You need to play the Sea Serpent "in the same contiguous line as the Hermod tile, not just the same row/column.".
Here my questions:
a) I understand the FAQ so that the Sea Serpent, that is played right after Hermod in the same turn, MUST be played NEXT to the Hermod just played, horizontal or vertical adjacent. Right?
b) Is this FAQ rule a special rule for the Sea Serpent? What about all other tiles (except for Hel), like Odin, Troll, Hermod and the others? May they as well be played in the same row or column, NOT adjacent to the Hermod just played?

16.) Does a tile placed next to Hel always score (at least) one point?
In the rules manual it says: "You may place a tile adjacent to only a Hel tile. This will start a new line of one and score 1 point".
I understand that having the following board:
Dragon, Hel
Valkyrie

... and I place Valkyrie like that:
Dragon, Hel, Valkyrie
Valkyrie

...then I score 1 point because the Valkyrie is adjacent only to Hel and starts a new line. However, when I now place a Fenrir like that:
Dragon, Hel, Valkyrie
Valkyrie, Fenrir

...will I score the line and the column? Will I get 2 or 3 points? Does the Fenrir start a new line below Hel and does it therefore score 1 point for the column?

17.) May I play tiles on top of the Hermod I just played?
In the rules manual it says: "After placing Hermod, you may immediately place another tile in the same line as Hermod is placed".
Since Hermod is in the same line as Hermod, I assume that I may play tiles on top of it right after I played it. Am I right?
a) May I place the dragon that I play right after Hermod on top of the Hermod I've just placed?
b) What about Jotunn? May I bump the Hermod I've just played?
c) May I capture the Hermod I've just played with Skadi?
Now what about Hel:
d) May I play Hel on top of the Hermod I've just played?

18.) Does Sea Serpent score a line bookended by Valkyries?
In the official FAQ it says: "If a line begins and ends with Valkyrie tiles, those Valkyrie tiles continue to dominate the line until they no longer bookend the line.".
Can a Sea Serpent score a column in spite of the column containing a line where Valkyries are dominating?
For example:

Valkyrie
Hermod
Valkyrie
Hel

Now I place Sea Serpent below Hel, like that:

Valkyrie
Hermod
Valkyrie
Hel
Sea Serpent

Can my Sea Serpent score 5 points because it has the highest value in the column in spite of the Valkyries dominating the line? Or does it only score 1 point for being the highest value in the horizontal line?


19.) Does Lightning Bolt score a line bookended by Valkyries?
In the official FAQ it says:
"If a line begins and ends with Valkyrie tiles, those Valkyrie tiles continue to dominate the line until they no longer bookend the line. For example, if a line has a Valkyrie, Odin, and Valkyrie, placing a Dragon tile on top of the Odin would not dominate the line since the Valkyrie tiles still bookend the line.".

And the rules for Lightning Bolt say:
"Place the Lightning Bolt on top of another tile. The Lightning Bolt scores the shortest of the two lines it is in (lightning always takes the shortest path to the ground) even if this tile does not have the highest value in that line.".

So the Lightning Bolt differs from the Dragon with regard to the need of having the highest value which means domination of the line. So placing *Lightning Bolt* on top of a tile between two bookending Valkyries, will it score?

For example:

Valkyrie
Hermod
Valkyrie

Now I place Lightning Bolt on top of Hermod like this:

Valkyrie
LightningBolt
Valkyrie

Do I score 3 points?
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Scott Caputo
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Thank you for your questions.

1. The German rules are incorrect. You should get 1 point for diagonally adjacent tiles too.

2. The German rules are incorrect. You may place the Hel tile diagonally adjacent to a just placed Hermod tile.

3. Very good question, but the answer is no. Once a Hel tile is played, it's considered a gap.

4. Discarding is only allowed if no plays are possible. Having a player show that they have no moves is a good idea. In practice, I've never seen this happen in any game I've ever played.

5. Thor would not score. The Fenrir tiles are each worth 12 while Thor is only worth 7.

6. Yes, players may get different numbers of turns at the end of the game. It's possible a player may get several turns in a row at the end of the game. If a player has no tiles to play, he must pass his turn.

7. Yes, you are right.

8. Yes, that's right.

9 & 10. You may place the Dragon and Jotunn tiles on the board without using their special power. So a Dragon does not have to be placed on top of a tile and Jotunn does not have to bump a tile.

Happy playing.
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Scott Caputo
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11. I think you are asking if a Jotunn may bump a tile that is next to a Troll and the answer is no since Jotunn would end up next to a Troll. Likewise, a Jotunn may not bump a tile to a new position next to a Troll either. However, a Jotunn may bump a Troll as long as the Troll is bumped into a new position away from the Jotunn.

12. That is a special rare case. In that case, the player may discard a tile, showing the other players that they have no possible move.
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Scott Caputo
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13. Only 8 points. Once a Hel tile is played, it counts as a gap, not as a tile.
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Frank Strauss
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1 and 2:


blushblush Sorry but I made the mistake blushblush
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Scott Caputo
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14. As noted in the recently posted FAQ for the game, the rules should forbid using Skadi to take another Skadi tile. That rule was mistakenly left out of the rules, but I certainly always intended to forbid that particular use of a Skadi.
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Scott Caputo
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a) I understand the FAQ so that the Sea Serpent, that is played right after Hermod in the same turn, MUST be played NEXT to the Hermod just played, horizontal or vertical adjacent. Right?

The Sea Serpent tile does not need to be adjacent, it just needs to be in the same continuous line as the Hermod tile. What the FAQ was trying to say is that you cannot play a Sea Serpent in the same row/column across a gap.




b) Is this FAQ rule a special rule for the Sea Serpent? What about all other tiles (except for Hel), like Odin, Troll, Hermod and the others? May they as well be played in the same row or column, NOT adjacent to the Hermod just played?

Yes, for all other tiles, they need to be placed in the same continuous line as the Hermod tile. They do not need to be placed directly adjacent to Hermod, though often they are.
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Scott Caputo
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16. 2 points only. The rule when the tile scores 1 point only applies if it is only adjacent to a Hel tile.
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Henning D.
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What if the placed tile is only adjacent to Hel tile but to several. Example:
a)
Given:
valkyrie, Hel
Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel
Hel, Fenrir

Does Fenrir score? If yes, how many points do I get for placing him?

b)
Given:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin
Hel
Thor, Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin,
Hel, Fenrir
Thor, Hel

Same questions as in a)

c)
Given:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin
Hel, empty_field, Hel
Thor, Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin,
Hel, Fenrir, Hel
Thor, Hel

Same questions as in a)

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Scott Caputo
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Rollon_Stonecrusher wrote:
What if the placed tile is only adjacent to Hel tile but to several. Example:
a)
Given:
valkyrie, Hel
Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel
Hel, Fenrir

Does Fenrir score? If yes, how many points do I get for placing him?

b)
Given:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin
Hel
Thor, Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin,
Hel, Fenrir
Thor, Hel

Same questions as in a)

c)
Given:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin
Hel, empty_field, Hel
Thor, Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin,
Hel, Fenrir, Hel
Thor, Hel

Same questions as in a)



1 point in each case. The rules could have more specific. If you place a tile adjacent only to 1 or more Hel tiles, that play scores 1 point.
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Scott Caputo
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17. Yes, in all four cases.
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Scott Caputo
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18. The Sea Serpent would score 5 points. It is the highest value in the column. The Sea Serpent would not score if it were in between the two Valkyrie on a connected line like the following:

Valkyrie
Sea Serpent
Valkyrie
Hel
Hermod

In that case, the Valkyries are the highest. But in your example, the Sea Serpent is not in between the Vakyries, so it is the highest. You might ask about this case:

Valkyrie
Hel
Sea Serpent
Valkyrie

In this case, the Sea Serpent would score since the power of the Valkyries only works on a connected line and the Hel tile starts new lines in all directions
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Henning D.
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scottwildcatman wrote:
Rollon_Stonecrusher wrote:
What if the placed tile is only adjacent to Hel tile but to several. Example:
a)
Given:
valkyrie, Hel
Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel
Hel, Fenrir

Does Fenrir score? If yes, how many points do I get for placing him?

b)
Given:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin
Hel
Thor, Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin,
Hel, Fenrir
Thor, Hel

Same questions as in a)

c)
Given:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin
Hel, empty_field, Hel
Thor, Hel

Now I place Fenrir like that:
Valkyrie, Hel, Odin,
Hel, Fenrir, Hel
Thor, Hel

Same questions as in a)



1 point in each case. The rules could have more specific. If you place a tile adjacent only to 1 or more Hel tiles, that play scores 1 point.


Does Sea Serpent score 1 point if it is only adjacent to Hel? I ask because for Sea Serpent two rules from the rulesbook apply:
1.) "You may place a tile adjacent to only a Hel tile. This will start a new line of one and scores 1 point."
and
2.) "The Sea Serpent only scores when it has the highest value among all tiles in its row/column including tiles across gaps (including Hel tiles)."
Imagine the following board:

empty, Thor, Odin
empty, Thor
Thor, Hel

And now I place Sea Serpent like this:

empty, Thor, Odin
empty, Thor
Thor, Hel, SeaSerpent

So Sea Serpent is neither highest in column nor in horizontal line. However its only adjacent to Hel. Does it Score one point?
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Scott Caputo
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No, the Sea Serpent does not score. In order to score, it must be the highest in its row or column. As such, it is one tile that does not follow the special 1 point score for placing only next to the Hel tile.
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Henning D.
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scottwildcatman wrote:
No, the Sea Serpent does not score. In order to score, it must be the highest in its row or column. As such, it is one tile that does not follow the special 1 point score for placing only next to the Hel tile.


Imagine Hel is the only tile on the board and I place Sea Serpent next to it, will Sea Serpent score the 1 point then?

Hel, SeaSerpent
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Scott Caputo
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Yes, the Sea Serpent would score 1 point.
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Chris Pieters
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I'm trying to learn the 'new' tiles on Yucata, and the Sea Serpent scoring examples are making no sense to me. Are they correct, and if so, can you explain the following ones?

Directly in the Sea Serpent explanation, there is a Sea Serpent placed below a Thor (7) tile. That Thor tile is part of a row of 4, which at its other end has a Loki tile below it. I can understand that the Sea Serpent beats the Loki, but Thor is beside a Dragon (5), so wouldn't the Sea Serpent score 0?

Q4 is similar... the question asks if 6 points would be scored, but there is only a Thor tile or Hel tile in the Sea Serpent row/column, so wouldn't the most be 4? (the result is 0, but why are 6 points even being listed as a possibility?)

Thank you.
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Scott Caputo
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In your first question, the Sea Serpent scores 4 points because it scores the line with Loki tile in it. When the Sea Serpent scores, it scores including gaps. There is a gap of 2 tiles between the Sea Serpent tile and the Loki tile for a total of 4 points overall.

Q4 is considering the column with only the Sea Serpent and Hel tile in it. But since the Hel tile counts as a gap once played, the Sea Serpent scores not points.

Hope this makes sense.
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Chris Pieters
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It does! I didn't realize that you scored for the gaps too. That part should probably be emphasized in the Sea Serpent explanation, but at least I understand it now.

Thank you.
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Jens www.spielefreun.de
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Addition to question # 13:

Does the tile below the Hel count for the new Hel?

Otherwise I'd expect the new Hel to only score 7 points.
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Scott Caputo
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Motorkopf wrote:
Addition to question # 13:

Does the tile below the Hel count for the new Hel?

Otherwise I'd expect the new Hel to only score 7 points.


Yes, you are right. Only 7 points.
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Another question about Skadi: can Skadi capture a Troll?

The rules say that no other tile may be placed adjacent (horizontal or vertical) to a Troll and that Skadi cannot capture a tile next to a Troll, but they don't mention anything about Skadi capturing the Troll itself.
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Scott Caputo
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FishBasketGordo wrote:
Another question about Skadi: can Skadi capture a Troll?

The rules say that no other tile may be placed adjacent (horizontal or vertical) to a Troll and that Skadi cannot capture a tile next to a Troll, but they don't mention anything about Skadi capturing the Troll itself.


Yes, a Skadi may be used to capture a Troll as long as that Troll is not next to another Troll.
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Scott Caputo
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19. The Lightning Bolt scores even if the line is bookended by two Valkyrie tiles. I looked at the rules I originally sent to White Goblin and that case was covered. I'm sorry I didn't notice that it was left out of the final published rules.
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