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Subject: Questions about De-Stalinization and (again) Bear Trap/Quag rss

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Thomas Donnelly
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Richard already asked an important question about Bear Trap/Quagmire that hasn't been answered yet: Can the player laboring under the restrictions of the card simply discard OP2+ events for the other side without consequence? Seems like in some ways Bear Trap/Quagmire could be a good thing in that instance. Indeed, there's another card in the deck that allows you to get rid of your discard, or you can just let your enemy help you out with Bear Trap/Quagmire. OR when you discard an enemy event, does it trigger the event?

Second question is about De-Stalinization. When you move your influence, can you move it anywhere on the board, or are you subject to the placement restrictions of operations points (i.e. can you put influence where you have no influence anywhere around, or must you build next to existing influence markers.) The example in the rules is confusing. The first move of influence is to a country next to one where they have influence, but the next move is to the next country over from that. Under the rules, that would have to happen in a separate phase.

My worry is that De-Stalinization is a powerful spearhead into previously untouchable territory if you can just place that influence wherever you want.

Thoughts, answers?

Oh, and I'm smitten with the game.

First game: turn 7 US victory - 21 pts.

Tom
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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Re: Questions about De-Stalinization and (again) Bear Trap/Q
thomasdean007 wrote:
Richard already asked an important question about Bear Trap/Quagmire that hasn't been answered yet: Can the player laboring under the restrictions of the card simply discard OP2+ events for the other side without consequence? Seems like in some ways Bear Trap/Quagmire could be a good thing in that instance. Indeed, there's another card in the deck that allows you to get rid of your discard, or you can just let your enemy help you out with Bear Trap/Quagmire. OR when you discard an enemy event, does it trigger the event?


I read it as "without consequence" -- if the event is supposed to trigger, Bear Trap/Quagmire should say so.

Quote:
Second question is about De-Stalinization. When you move your influence, can you move it anywhere on the board, or are you subject to the placement restrictions of operations points (i.e. can you put influence where you have no influence anywhere around, or must you build next to existing influence markers.) The example in the rules is confusing. The first move of influence is to a country next to one where they have influence, but the next move is to the next country over from that. Under the rules, that would have to happen in a separate phase.


I read it as anywhere. If it were just "as if influencing", then the car would be largely pointless -- why not just take the ops instead of having to reducing your influence elsewhere?

Quote:
My worry is that De-Stalinization is a powerful spearhead into previously untouchable territory if you can just place that influence wherever you want.


Many of the cards give powerful effects -- I don't even find De-Stalinization to be at the top of the list in that regard.

 
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Allen Doum
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thomasdean007 wrote:
Richard already asked an important question about Bear Trap/Quagmire that hasn't been answered yet: Can the player laboring under the restrictions of the card simply discard OP2+ events for the other side without consequence? Seems like in some ways Bear Trap/Quagmire could be a good thing in that instance. Indeed, there's another card in the deck that allows you to get rid of your discard, or you can just let your enemy help you out with Bear Trap/Quagmire. OR when you discard an enemy event, does it trigger the event?


You can discard your opponents events, with no effect. They go into the discard pile. See 5.4.
As to it somestime being an advantage, this sounds good, but is less true in practice. The forced discard means that you are skipping your action phase while your opponent continues to use his. Dumping his events is small consolation, and you can't get rid of scoring cards with Bear Trap/Quagmire.

Quote:
Second question is about De-Stalinization. When you move your influence, can you move it anywhere on the board, or are you subject to the placement restrictions of operations points (i.e. can you put influence where you have no influence anywhere around, or must you build next to existing influence markers.) The example in the rules is confusing. The first move of influence is to a country next to one where they have influence, but the next move is to the next country over from that. Under the rules, that would have to happen in a separate phase.

My worry is that De-Stalinization is a powerful spearhead into previously untouchable territory if you can just place that influence wherever you want.


Covered in 6.1.1. Events that place, or in this case move, influence allow it to be placed anywhere, subject only to any limitation in the event.

 
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Thomas Donnelly
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Thanks to all. Cleared it all up for me.
 
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Roger Taylor
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Rulemonger wrote:
Quote:
My worry is that De-Stalinization is a powerful spearhead into previously untouchable territory if you can just place that influence wherever you want.


Many of the cards give powerful effects -- I don't even find De-Stalinization to be at the top of the list in that regard.


I love "foot in the door" cards like Decolonialization, so I think De-Stalinization is one of the most powerful. The downside is that you must pick up the influence from somewhere else.
 
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