Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Thunderstone Advance: Towers of Ruin» Forums » General

Subject: Original Thunderstone officially dead rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
According to the recent Thunderstone Aid (randomizer app) -- which is an official product from AEG -- AEG has decided to separate Thunderstone from Thunderstone Advance once and for all.
(Accordingly, you can no longer use the official randomizer to generate a setup using cards from both generations).
Well, this sucks big time.

Not only because I can't use the app anymore -- and this would rightfully call for a refund -- but also because AEG is telling me that I can no longer play with the cards I gave them hundreds of dollars for, if I want to keep moving forward.

Sure, I'll be told that I just need to choose between old and new Thunderstone for any given session. But who wants to make a distinction between two games that are basically identical?
Again, this really sucks.

And I don't see why I should continue buying TS expansions. They'll just bury everything else I have even deeper.

Thanks for nothing, guys.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raman Ohri
United States
Fishers
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't personally read so much finality/intention into their action. BUT as a huge fan of the game, I was really disappointed with this move. I started downloading the update before reading the release notes - would have cancelled the update if I could.

If you're listening AEG: why do this? It makes the app useless to a portion of your customers. Surely there are UX design changes you could have made to the app to make it easier for TA-only customers while not alienating your long-standing customers.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Rowland
United States
Mobile
Alabama
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Never know what's next.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Guys, the app is endorsed by us, but it is made by a third party. We have no idea how to make apps.

I'll contact them and find out why those cards are no longer available.
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Danish
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Thundermaster web-app, which is pretty solid, still works. It won't let you read the rules like the iOS app, but it does randomize across sets / versions. The developer is also pretty present on BGG if you run into problems.

http://www.alderac.com/thundermaster/
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Even if I were to buy Advance and mix the new cards with the old ones, there wouldn't be any problem randomizing the setups, since I have actual physical cards, I think they are called randomizers that came with the sets whistle .
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Toltz
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Your cat likes me more
badge
In brightest day / In blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power--Green Lantern's light!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jdanish wrote:
The Thundermaster web-app, which is pretty solid, still works. It won't let you read the rules like the iOS app, but it does randomize across sets / versions. The developer is also pretty present on BGG if you run into problems.

http://www.alderac.com/thundermaster/


Also available at http://asmor.com/scripts/tsrand/



Works great on phones, tablets, computers, and even Kindles. And runs offline, as long as you load it once while you have an Internet connection.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Hey guys -
There are many reasons for the decision to remove the Legacy cards from the new version of the Advance App. The decision to do this was mine (the App Dev) and should in no way infer that AEG is killing off support for the original Thunderstone. Please read carefully.

First, there is a new free App on the store called "Thunderstone AID Legacy". This App has all of the cards and data from sets 1-6. The Advance App will open it directly from the menu on the left if you have it installed. You can jump between the two pretty quickly for referencing. It has the same features, but focuses on Thunderstone Legacy only. This free edition was cleared by AEG as a "lite" version basically. I did not expect this separation to be interpretted as AEG dropping support for the original Thunderstone and I'm sure they didn't expect that interprettion either. Maybe the term "Legacy" implies "deprecated" too much. It was meant to feel more "fantastical" than "dead".

So why separate the Legacy cards into a new App?

Reason 1: needless complexity. I do collect stats on how often people are using the App and somewhat useful analytics - like what sets they are using. I use these analytics to drive my roadmap. These analytics led me to discover that those who use it for mixing Legacy and Advance decks have become the minority more and more. Yes, Advance and Legacy do meld and play nice together, but the logic you have to put into the Randomizer was substantial to meet the edge cases and for the time investment, there were better things to focus on which more people wanted (like RoC data and a more succinct UI). Even the online randomizers don't take into consideration all of the edge cases and will give you an unplayable deck occassionally. Since the Randomizer has an "Intelligent Shuffle" which only creates playable decks, the effort in maintaining it for 9 sets with an incredible number of exceptions to the rules, was pretty large. I made an informed decision to remove the cards realizing that yes, there would be a few upset customers. This is why I made the Legacy version first and released it for free to try and placate any blowback from the decision.

Reason 2: The Apps include high-resolution images of the cards and the size of a single App was getting close to 200MB. From my analytics, it was apparent that most *new* users of the App are buying if for Advance and don't play Legacy any longer. Thus the Legacy data is not relevant for these users - it creates complexity in the UI and eats up 100+ MB on their devices.

There are a few other reasons which add weight to the decision but they are irrelevant because...

Moving forward:

I appreciate that the frustration with the change was voiced here and not on the App Store via reviews. Because of that, I will bring back the Legacy cards into the Advance Aid. It's fairly simple to do. I will push out an update with that change in the next 2 weeks. (I'll actually do it this weekend, but it can take up to 2 weeks for Apple to approve it)

I know some people may be missing the Card Creator as well. The Legacy App will be getting the Creator for Legacy cards and Advance App will be getting one for the Advance cards. I just need to take some time to build the Advance one. Removing it was a decision to keep the Legacy and Advance versions in parity. It'll be back...

And in case you were wondering - the online deck sharing feature was rarely used (about 10 times over the course of 9 months). There was no demand for it, but I am considering bringing it back in a new way in the future.


If you have complaints, bugs, feature requests, etc - Email me (joel@codeinversion.com) or Tweet me (@codeinversion or @thunderstoneAid). I listen. I really do. I've responded to and implemented about 10 feature requests over these mediums. Those are the fastest channels to let me know what you would like to see in future versions of Thunderstone AID. This isn't a "money grab" App - I've made little more than a few days pay over the last year in revenue from it, and I've definitely spent more than a few days on it... This App is by a gamer for the gamers and fortunately, endorsed by AEG. I respond well to people who ask nicely.

Currently some customers are in the habit of handing out 1 star ratings (aka "rating bombing") to try to facilitate the change they want in an Application. However, this is not a good way to go about expressing the desired changes and can be detrimental for a variety of reasons.

A 1 star review hurts sales. Less sales = less money. Commitments to continually support and update Premium Apps means nothing if there's no money to justify updating it. Updates are free to current users (no new money) and developers rely upon new sales to justify spending more time on an App. You are significantly decreasing your chances of seeing an update with the features you want if you complain about it with a 1 star rant review which deters new sales and thus the Dev's incentivization to keep the App up to date. It's pretty straight forward but for some reason a lot of people fail to connect the dots. 1 star literally means "I wish this App didn't exist, it has no hope for redemption and it should be pulled from the App Store."

Leave a 2-4 star rating that's appropriate. 3 stars says "This App is useful for some people, but not for me". If the App crashes on launch, go for it - leave 1 star. It deserves to be bombed. If it's just not meeting your needs, leave something in the middle that's fair to the App and that tells other potential customers the quality of the App *in general*.

Finally - please do rate Apps, but please also adjust your ratings when the app is updated. Even if it's a 2 star rating, it can be useful. Please DO be objective with your comments and offer up what the developer could do to earn a higher rating. Also use the support information if you have a problem and want a fast response. The App Store does not provide mechanisms via the reviews to contact the customer, so if you want a comment from the Developer, don't expect a 1 star review to encourage a response (a large problem that we hope is addressed in the future, but that doesn't mean the App Store itself gets 1 star). :-)


Thank you for supporting the development of the App. I know we all have the same goal of making Thunderstone Aid the most effective companion App it can be! If you want to see a more clear roadmap for the App, don't hesitate to email me. (I don't share the roadmap publicly for various reasons)

Joel Stewart
Code Inversion
27 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Castree
Japan
Osaka
Osaka
flag msg tools
ACGalaga.com
badge
What da heck?!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am pretty happy about the changes you made. But I'm one of those people who only have Thunderstone Advance.

As for the online setup sharing option: with the previous version, there were never any setups uploaded, otherwise I would have certainly made more use of the option. It certainly seems like a nice feature otherwise.

I'd also suggest having the premade modules from the manuals availble in the "saved setup" section. It'd be nice to add my play count for them in the app. I could make them myself so it's not that big of a deal.

I'm not sure if this could be done or not, but I thought it would be nice if we could comment on the individule cards with rule questions. Some of the cards already have this rule clarification included, which is great, but it would be neat if we could submit any further questions we may have through the app.

Finally, something I came across that could use a little tuning: when searching for a card, I selected to sort by set, then selected the card I wanted to see. When I returned to the list it was reset to sort by all cards and went back to the top of the list. Yet again, not a big deal, but it would be nice if I could return to the location I was just at in the list (so I can easily browse through the monsters of a certain set, for example). Once again, not a huge dilemma or anything. It woul just add to ease I use.

I certainly appreciate the work you put into this and the update made my day! I really wouldn't mind if you kept it the same price if it would assure future updates.

Thank you so much for this useful tool!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The update notes for the app state that the two systems had to be split apart because of upcoming new features for the game.
Hence my assumption that AEG was dropping the original Thunderstone -- and hence my pissed-offness.

Of course, none of this is in any way dramatic -- but I bought into Advance because I was told it would be compatible with all the cards I had previously bought.
I would hate to find out it's no longer true.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kitrik wrote:

I appreciate that the frustration with the change was voiced here and not on the App Store via reviews. Because of that, I will bring back the Legacy cards into the Advance Aid. It's fairly simple to do. I will push out an update with that change in the next 2 weeks. (I'll actually do it this weekend, but it can take up to 2 weeks for Apple to approve it)

Well, I don't believe in torpedoing an app just because there's something in an update that I don't like. I absolutely love the way your app works. I hate that the original TS cards are being taken out.

But you're saying you're putting them back in? I think I'm confused as to the reason for their removal in the first place, then. In any case, thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I had pulled the servers offline that were hosting the shared data back in December. They were incurring bandwidth costs as I assumed (incorrectly) that the feature would be used a lot, so I planned on it. Unfortunately that means I also locked it onto a host that did cost real $. The re-implementation of it, if I decide to do it, will have a better hosting solution that will scale appropriately for the usage and facilitate other apps and games as well.

The pre-made modules could be kept up to date, but it was another feature that I watched in my analytics and very few people were going to that area of the App to play those setups. So the feature was cut. As you said - you can easily go in and remake them yourself and then save them to your favorites, so I'm going to rely upon that solution for the people that use it still.

The "tuning" bug is fixed in version 2.1 coming out this week. Someone else caught it as well (introduced when I was cranking away fast on the iPad UI, which I'm not happy with but had to get it done so I could release the RoC cards).

I'll keep the price at $0.99. I know that companion apps take a lot of flack for their price points. Obviously at this point sales are there just to justify keeping it up to date, not to actually make $, so there's really no reason it needs to be $1.99.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I am not a representative of AEG in outlining their roadmap of games, nor do I even have access to that information. However, they have made public statements and Legacy cards in the new Advance format available for free online. Combine that with the re-introduction of Legacy features in every expansion and it's not too hard for anyone to predict where they're going. For my personal play time and what my data was showing me, with ToR and CoB, most people were barely using Legacy features any longer. With adding RoC's treasure back into the mix, the only Legacy features that weren't present in Advance were Settings, Traps and then some weird, incompatible Guardian shenanigans. It felt like an okay time to split them.

I understand the desire to continue using Heros and Monsters and a few other cards from Legacy in your randomization though - so that's what I added back in.

Please note: there may come a time when it IS appropriate to make the split (read: all compatible Legacy cards are in Advance format with Advance-friendly rules). I don't know if that day will come or when - it's all speculation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
weishaupt wrote:
Kitrik wrote:

I appreciate that the frustration with the change was voiced here and not on the App Store via reviews. Because of that, I will bring back the Legacy cards into the Advance Aid. It's fairly simple to do. I will push out an update with that change in the next 2 weeks. (I'll actually do it this weekend, but it can take up to 2 weeks for Apple to approve it)

Well, I don't believe in torpedoing an app just because there's something in an update that I don't like. I absolutely love the way your app works. I hate that the original TS cards are being taken out.

But you're saying you're putting them back in? I think I'm confused as to the reason for their removal in the first place, then. In any case, thanks!


Thank you for not torpedoing it. If you know who "Bill K 2" is, please share this post with him so he can understand that his review is the worst thing he could possibly do for soliciting updates to the App.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kitrik wrote:
weishaupt wrote:
Kitrik wrote:

I appreciate that the frustration with the change was voiced here and not on the App Store via reviews. Because of that, I will bring back the Legacy cards into the Advance Aid. It's fairly simple to do. I will push out an update with that change in the next 2 weeks. (I'll actually do it this weekend, but it can take up to 2 weeks for Apple to approve it)

Well, I don't believe in torpedoing an app just because there's something in an update that I don't like. I absolutely love the way your app works. I hate that the original TS cards are being taken out.

But you're saying you're putting them back in? I think I'm confused as to the reason for their removal in the first place, then. In any case, thanks!


Thank you for not torpedoing it. If you know who "Bill K 2" is, please share this post with him so he can understand that his review is the worst thing he could possibly do for soliciting updates to the App.

Unfortunately, I don't know the guy.
I'm sorry about this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Hadlock
United States
Roy
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lots of useful info in this thread, thanks to Joel for giving so much info. My solution was to just not update, mainly because I didn't want to lose the custom card maker.

I don't own any of the new stuff yet. Played Advance first but a friend was buying it so no need. Saw an opportunity to get most of the old stuff for a deal and jumped on it, I'm loving the old cards w/ the new rules integrated.

I do look forward to the new app updates. Still won't update until that card creator is available on the legacy version.

Would LOVE it if I could create custom cards and Save them in my mix to be randomly shuffled in. Not sure how hard this would be to implement. It does seem self defeating for me to use the app to create custom monsters, and then have to use physical random generators if I want them to show up in the mix from time to time.

Anyway, thank you again Joel for taking the time to spell out the changes and the direction you are taking.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey Joel!

I can't update to the new version (April 23) -- here's the error message I get when I try:

ix.ApplicationNotCompatible.WarningTitle

and then, right under it:

ix.ApplicationNotCompatible.SoftwareUpdateDescription


What's happening?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I have no idea... Where is that message being displayed?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johannes Haglund
Sweden
Göteborg
Västra Götaland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is there support for all the different promos in this app? I just got it, and don't see them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kitrik wrote:
I have no idea... Where is that message being displayed?

It's a pop-up window in the "updates" tab of the App Store, when I tab the UPDATE button for the app.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will M. Baker
United States
Silverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
Frankysan wrote:
Is there support for all the different promos in this app? I just got it, and don't see them.


I haven't looked recently for Avatars (the only promos for TS:A), but for older promos, each is listed in its corresponding base set/expansion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johannes Haglund
Sweden
Göteborg
Västra Götaland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
darquil wrote:
Frankysan wrote:
Is there support for all the different promos in this app? I just got it, and don't see them.


I haven't looked recently for Avatars (the only promos for TS:A), but for older promos, each is listed in its corresponding base set/expansion.

I meant in the randomizer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I believe I have all of the promos in there.
The promos are released alongside expansions so they are categorized as such. I may have missed the promo set for RoC (was there one?).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kitrik wrote:
I have no idea... Where is that message being displayed?

I tried to install it on my iPad, and it worked.
But I tried to uninstall it and reinstall it on my iPhone, and it failed. I still get that error message.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Stewart
United States
Maplewood
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
iOS Version?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes.
iPhone 4 and iPad 4.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.