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Subject: Seattle free shipping math trade rss

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Lindsey Dubb
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This is the discussion thread for the Seattle free shipping math trade GeekList
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...

Rules for this math trade

1. This is a math trade, as described in this thread
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/756051
We’ll be using the “Maximize Trades” algorithm to figure out who is trading with whom, as implemented in Kayvon’s TradeGenie program.

2. Number of game entries: Each person near Seattle can have up to 10 game entries. Each person away from Seattle can have up to 2 entries. (I’ll describe what qualifies as “near” down in the section on location, below.) Note that this is an increase from the original limits of 6 and 1 per person.

3. Deadlines:
Opens for entries from people near Seattle: Thursday, January 26th at 8 PM PST.
Opens for entries from people not near Seattle: Sunday, January 29th at 8 PM PST. Note that this is a change from my earlier post of the rules!
Closes to entries: Once there are 150 entries, on Thursday, February 2nd at 8 PM PST, or when I say so (with at least 2 hours warning), whichever comes first.
Want lists due: Tuesday, February 7th at 10 PM PST.
I will not calculate the trade list’s results until after 10 PM on February 7th.

4. Kinds of entries: You may include more than one game in your offer. You may add sweeteners after your initial entry, but only up until 12 hours after the list closes to new entries. You may not allow a choice of different items to the recipient. (This applies both to your original entry and to any sweeteners.) Feel free to add GeekGold as a sweetener.

5. Duplicates: No duplicate entries are allowed. So you can’t have two entries for “Puerto Rico,” but one entry of Puerto Rico and another of Puerto Rico plus San Juan would be okay.

6. Location: This trade is mostly meant for people who are willing to deliver their games in the Seattle area. If you’re able and willing to receive your game(s) for at least 1 day in February (after the trade) within 20 miles of Seattle, you should write the following by your first entry:
Near Seattle
If you can’t receive your games near Seattle, you can still participate if you happen to see a game you really want, and are willing to pay shipping both for your own entry and for the game(s) you’d like to trade for. In this case, you should write the following by your first entry:
Not near Seattle
If you’re borderline (for example, if you’re in Everett, or making occasional trips to Seattle, or somesuch), feel free to post below for clarification.

Note that you don’t have to agree to physically bring your games to people — only to be available to receive them without shipping from other Seattle traders.

7. Shipping costs:
- If both the sender and the recipient are “near Seattle,” then the sender can choose to deliver the game(s) in person, or they can choose to mail the games. If they mail the games, they’re responsible for the shipping costs. You are encouraged to discuss convenient meeting locations and times with your trading partners.
- If the recipient is “not near Seattle” and the sender is “near Seattle,” then the recipient must refund the shipping costs to the sender! The sender may choose to allow payment in GeekGold, at a suggested rate of 5 GG to $1 US.
- If the recipient is “near Seattle,” but the sender is “not near Seattle,” then the sender pays the full shipping cost.
- If both the sender and the recipient are “not near Seattle,” then the sender will pay shipping charges. If the sender and recipient are in different countries, then the sender can require the recipient to refund the additional cost of sending the game(s) to their country. As above, the sender may choose to allow payment in GeekGold, at a suggested rate of 5 GG to $1 US.

8. Formatting your lists: Once the list closes to new entries, I will list all the entries along with an ID word identifying the entry. (The scheme will be something like Itemnumber.Game_Name.) To format your entry, list your own entry’s GameID, followed by the GameID of each game you’re interested in trading for, in your order of preference. I strongly recommend that you copy the GameID from the official list, instead of trying to guess at it! If you make even the tiniest of misspellings, the computer won’t be able to understand your entry. If you’re not interested in a game, don’t list it. So, for example, I might (ambitiously) enter
5.Junta 51.Roads_and_Boats 19.TitanIf you decide that you don’t want to trade your game for any of the entries, just leave the space after your entry’s ID word blank. That is,
5.JuntaSend your list of wanted trades to me (user ID Lindsey) by GeekMail. Please entitle your message “math trade yourUserID” (but substitute your real userID, of course).

9. Trading: Once the list of trades is posted, I’ll leave a period of at least 12 hours for questions and corrections. Do not propose any trades (or worse, send any games) until the period is over. Once the list of trades is official, I’ll post guidelines (pretty much the usual thing, with trade offers and such) on contacting the other traders.
 
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Thomas Eager
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While I enjoy math lists, this one has so many extraordinary conditions that your response may be pretty low. Demanding that any user "not near Seattle" pay BOTH shipping charges seems a tad severe. I mean, I realize I COULD select only users "not near Seattle", but that kinda defeats the purpose and also makes the odds of acheiving a trade far less likely. Not to mention the extra hassle involved in geographically locating each and every user with games I want. Good luck in any event.
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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Permitting six entries for locals means locals can exchange things like card games as well as heavy boxes. I agree with many who say that this is unnecessary for direct trades. It's primary advantage is to find longer chains where everyone wins (except the USPS).

Another way to use this Forum post is for Seattle participants to list games they are interested in getting.

I'd like the new Citadels, Bongo (boxed, not tubed), Gloom & expansion, a Dungeoneer, Crazy Chicken, Dog's Life, Hansa, Queen's Necklace & Elfengold.
 
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Ed Sherman
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Bummer. Good deal for you Seattle guys, sort of a drag for non-Seattle people. Hopefully there will be a "regular" math trade coming up soon.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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That’s the way it has to go with a free shipping trade — Everyone participating needs to live nearby one another, or be willing to pick up all the shipping charges. (It might be interesting to try a postal zone-based trade, instead, as a different way to keep shipping charges low, but that’ll be a different trade.)

So if you see a prize for which you’re willing to pay shipping for two entries to get it, you might choose to participate even if you live elsewhere. But otherwise, people outside the Seattle area will want to wait for a different math trade.

Since you’re in Oregon, it’s also not impossible that someone near you will be making the trip up here, soon. So if somebody very generous volunteers to be a courier, that could let you have free shipping, too.
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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If Oregonians want to join, I would offer to store the consolidated pile of games going to Oregon & and pile of games coming from Oregon, but would need to have people drop them off/pick them up from my place on Queen Anne, as I won't be able to turn this into a pick-up-and-delivery-game throughout the Puget Sound.
 
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Mike Pranno
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If you do not wish to pay extra for shipping, all you have to do is make sure you do not select any entries from Washington, Oregon, or anywhere outside the U.S. (unless, of course, they state otherwise). I realize this was not the intent of Lindsey's list, but it is pretty much what will happen... unless of couse someone wants to trade me a Wallenstein for my copy of Das Kollier.

Anyone?
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Mike,

Yeah, that did occur to me, but I’d request that people who participate to do so because they’re interested in the Seattle games.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Hmm... Now that I think about it, do people in the Seattle area want to discourage trade circles away from Seattle a little more strongly? I do have some ideas which I think would work pretty well at it, if we wanted to. An easy possibility would be to limit the total number of entries outside Seattle to something like 25, total.
 
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Ken
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Not sure I like the idea of a geographic specific trade list - hopefully this won't become a trend.

Best of luck to you Seattle-ites, though.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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The list is inspired mostly by a number of trades I’ve failed to make just because of the cost of postage. I’m glad to trade with people throughout the US — or the world — but of course that isn’t free.

Hopefully this’ll work out well, and people elsewhere will open their own local trade lists. I’m guessing that the lower costs will mean more heavy and/or low value games will be traded. But even if this works great, there are sure to be more national and international trades, too — We’re not going to get the variety of games and traders this way that you’d see in a national list.
 
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Nate Sandall
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Ben Corliss (allumbra) hosted a White Elephant back in December for gamers here in the Portland area. It was a lot of fun! There were two separate exchanges - one for items less than $20 and one for items more than $20 in value. People were allowed to participate in one or both exchanges.

Perhaps it would be easier to host just such a party in the Seattle area?

Anyhow, Tom and Ken, you guys should definitely plan on being at next December's White Elephant.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Yep, this is just an alternative way to run a local game exchange. It’s a bit better for trading than a white elephant exchange, though, at least if you want to be sure of getting something you really want. Entertainment value is another thing, of course. (I did think of trying to have a central time and location for swapping games, but our place is nowhere near big enough for it.) Anyhow, I figure this is worth a try — afterward we’ll have a better idea how well we like it compared with swap meets, convention trading, and the like.

Oh — And I got a good suggestion on how to run the trade a little better in GeekMail. Instead of having a hard limit of 25 games from people away from Seattle, I’ll probably instead open the list first to people who can receive their games near Seattle, and then open it a few days later to everyone else, too. That should give Seattlites the first opportunity to list their games, but still give other people a chance to participate if there’s space. I’m just fine with people away from Seattle trading, of course, and this would allow for other trades while making sure there’s space for locals.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Since it sounds like a good idea to me, and I haven’t heard any disagreements, I’ve changed the rules to reserve the first three days (until Sunday evening) for Seattle entries.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Just thought I’d post a reminder that the list will be opening for entries this evening at 8PM for people near Seattle.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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The GeekList is now open to entries from anyone near Seattle. (It’ll open for entries to people away from Seattle on Sunday at 8PM PST.)

If you haven’t yet done so, I’d recommend that you subscribe to this thread — That way you won’t need to reload this page just to find out if there’s been a new post.

Hope you all have fun with the trades!
 
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Tim K.
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Still waiting for Union Pacific, Reef Encounter or Power Grid to show up snore

Do all math trades generate such an eclectic list? I suppose it is a kind of flea market ninja
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Pretty much, yeah. Potentially, the big differences can be good for trading, since game tastes vary. (For me, at least, there are already some very interesting games on the list.) On the other hand, if games differ too much in their usual trading value, they’re not too likely to end up in the same “circle” of trades. But the algorithm sorts those issues out pretty well — You just get the more valuable games in one “circle,” and the less valuable in another.

Sometimes the trade is limited to particular ratings or number of people who list the game here as wanted — That does tend to homogenize things a little. I figured that we probably wanted as many games up as possible for this trade, though, so I went with “anything goes.”
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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I forgot to mention in the GeekList, itself — Discussion of the math trade as a whole should go here, but comments and questions on the individual entries should go below that entry as a comment.
 
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Tim Thorp
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I screwed up a bit- I listed where I live, but I'm willing to travel a little farther than the 20 mile limit. I didn't read the rules all the way through. blush
I'm clear on everything else. Really.

Go Seahawks!
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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You don’t need to live within 20 miles, so long as you’re okay with travelling a bit for one day.

That was the exact requirement in the rules, anyhow, just to make sure everyone is in the same general area. Of course, whatever you and your trading partners end up agreeing on for logistics is just fine.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Just a reminder — The list will be open to entries from people away from Seattle tonight at 8PM PST.

In case you were confused by my earlier posts about how to handle entries away from Seattle, I’ve settled on this: You’re welcome to add your entry, period. You do not need to decide in advance whether you’re interested in the entries which are “near Seattle.” But you will need to pay shipping from Seattle if you receive a game from someone here, so that’ll matter when you’re choosing which games you’d like to trade for.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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The list is now open for entries from anyone, regardless of where they live! People away from Seattle are limited to one entry, while people near Seattle are limited to a total of six entries. (I’ll likely increase both of those numbers Tuesday at 8PM.)
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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Just to remind people of the rules for “near Seattle” and “away from Seattle”... Anyone (regardless of where they live) can list as “near Seattle” so long as they will be available to receive their games within 20 miles of Seattle for 1 full day in February.

So although Everett and Puyallup are more than 20 miles from Seattle, people there can list as “near Seattle” so long as they’re willing to drive (or otherwise travel) closer for at least a day.
 
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Lindsey Dubb
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It’ll only matter for a few people, but I’m planning to increase the maximum entries per person (near Seattle) to 10 tomorrow (Tuesday) evening.
 
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